The Ref Stop

Ruskies v Croats

Best outcome for England --> A lackluster win for Croatia
I'd rather play the Croats on a level playing field than the a poor home nation team in Moscow. Hopefully nullifies any threat of violence whilst eliminating the team who hosted the tournament through no other reason than corruption
 
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The Ref Stop
This is the penalty that was kicked wide. Any reason it shouldn't have been retaken?

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bester said:
The problem for me was that he’d already warned the player not to block it!

That is the sort of thing that annoys clubs, they know it’s a mandatory caution and referees going their own way because they to are super game managers in their own minds annoys them.
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Just remember the magnitude of the game & the stance taken so far at the World Cup, he books the player for blocking a non dangerous free kick on half way two mins later the same player gets a second yellow that the ref can’t avoid & bang he’s just put the hosts down to 10 men.

In hindsight it was blatant disobedience from the player but on balance at the start of a World Cup quarter final I can see why he let it slide.
 
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one said:
This is the penalty that was kicked wide. Any reason it shouldn't have been retaken?

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Quite remarkable picture that, you just know refs are not interested in it.

I’ll never forget champs league final at old Trafford Juventus v somebody, now I was in love that summer with my first girlfriend & was drinking / smoking natures finest but I do recal Buffon being around 10yrds off his line for every pen.

Or Atleast I think he was :smoke:
 
If that ref is going to justify his insane position at the pens, as so he can judge gk off line, then I can only suggest in the future he stands on the line with the gk, as clearly being where he was served no purpose. The lotg have perfect easy to follow diagrams for the taking of pen kicks from pen mark and where to position yourself. Interfered with kickers and interfered with goalies, was bizarre to see that on the biggest stage. So concerned with appearing proactive that he forgot to follow through on his instructions.
 
Men in Black said:
Just remember the magnitude of the game & the stance taken so far at the World Cup, he books the player for blocking a non dangerous free kick on half way two mins later the same player gets a second yellow that the ref can’t avoid & bang he’s just put the hosts down to 10 men.

In hindsight it was blatant disobedience from the player but on balance at the start of a World Cup quarter final I can see why he let it slide.
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In no other sport are referees expected to accommodate players breaking the laws. Players have access to the LOTG and their experience, and should know that behaviour is unacceptable. I don't know why we expect referees to use "context" and carry out ridiculous mental gymnastics in order to justify not applying basic sanctions, which are exactly what they're employed to apply.

It's not the ref's fault if a player gets himself sent off for two yellow card offences. It is the ref's fault if he lets a player off a mandatory caution and that player than goes on to be involved in a KMI. For example, Neymar on Friday diving twice, not getting booked for either dive and then still being on the pitch to very nearly score an equaliser in the 90th minute. If that had gone in and Brazil had gone on to knock Belgium out, Belgium would legitimately have been able to argue that they had been let down by the ref randomly deciding not to apply mandatory sanctions.
 
GraemeS said:
In no other sport are referees expected to accommodate players breaking the laws. Players have access to the LOTG and their experience, and should know that behaviour is unacceptable. I don't know why we expect referees to use "context" and carry out ridiculous mental gymnastics in order to justify not applying basic sanctions, which are exactly what they're employed to apply.

It's not the ref's fault if a player gets himself sent off for two yellow card offences. It is the ref's fault if he lets a player off a mandatory caution and that player than goes on to be involved in a KMI. For example, Neymar on Friday diving twice, not getting booked for either dive and then still being on the pitch to very nearly score an equaliser in the 90th minute. If that had gone in and Brazil had gone on to knock Belgium out, Belgium would legitimately have been able to argue that they had been let down by the ref randomly deciding not to apply mandatory sanctions.
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I fully agree but Atleast you can say they have been consistent at this World Cup, agree or disagree with the approach they have been consistent.
 
GraemeS said:
I don't know why we expect referees to use "context" and carry out ridiculous mental gymnastics in order to justify not applying basic sanctions, which are exactly what they're employed to apply.
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Exactly. They don't do it, others do, then we get the familiar cry of 'oh, these referees are so inconsistent!'

I'm all for match control, but I don't think a caution at that point would have had much of impact in the grand scheme of things, and if they had... Well, that's on the player not the referee in that instance.
 
I think the problem with this tournament is that 1) VAR and 2) instructing not to give YCs, has significantly changed the referees’ responsibilities, actions and impact on the game.

Someone with more time on their hands can make up some statistics... what I see are a lot of goals from set pieces, and a lot of fouls with no attempt to play the ball. I can’t argue that this is directly related to players being confident they will not get a YC. But that is a logical conclusion.

I also see very slow games with the ball in play less time than usual. Again, someone brighter etc... but the thought in my head is this directly correlates to the increase in delay of game offences that have gone unpunished.

Overall I think the ”changes” have had too great an effect, and presumably unplanned.
 
GraemeS said:
I don't know why we expect referees to use "context" and carry out ridiculous mental gymnastics in order to justify not applying basic sanctions, which are exactly what they're employed to apply.
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You kind of gave the reasoning by saying "employed to". It is not in the financial interest of the employers (FIFA) for players to be cautioned or sent off, especially if the said players are the stars of the show.

I have never liked the system where a deliberate conflict of interest is forced on the referees who are employed by the tournament organisers "referee the game as per the LOTG but keep the players in the game".

The local grassroots system we have (independent RA) is not perfect but removes that issues. Referees are paid and appointed by the RA and rarely need to communicate with the football body. The RA invoices the football body for any services and manages any communications.
 
If you want to be a top class referee, leave you're integrity at the door and do what you're told (same as most jobs I guess).
On a side note, how few red cards have we had? Fewest in living memory for me!
 
deusex said:
If you want to be a top class referee, leave you're integrity at the door and do what you're told (same as most jobs I guess).
On a side note, how few red cards have we had? Fewest in living memory for me!
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In my view, this will become a "VAR is working" argument at the end of the tournament.
 
deusex said:
Not like delaying the restart of play then?
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Bear in mind that the laws say that if a player quickly takes a free kick and deliberately plays it against the opponent that play should carry on. That certainly is what happened with Henderson against Sweden in an attempt to get the opponent cautioned, and Kuipers rightly carried on.
 
RustyRef said:
Bear in mind that the laws say that if a player quickly takes a free kick and deliberately plays it against the opponent that play should carry on. That certainly is what happened with Henderson against Sweden in an attempt to get the opponent cautioned, and Kuipers rightly carried on.
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Interesting, I haven't noticed this. Do you have a page number?
 
Kes said:
But the LOTG say it's a cautionable offence.

It's also cheating and is an instant yellow from me in my matches. Every time.
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Would you take a different approach in a World Cup quarter final?

So 5 mins in would u still give the caution?

In the grand scheme of things the referee only had to give 2 cautions in the whole 90 mins, he had respect & complete match control.
 
Men in Black said:
Would you take a different approach in a World Cup quarter final?

So 5 mins in would u still give the caution?
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If I had got to a point where I was being appointed to ref a world cup quarter final, I would assume the people appointing me want the referee they have appointed to turn up, not some weird conflicted version of that person. I'm not the terrifying disciplinarian that some people on here claim to be, but I like to think that I have a good grasp of the laws, and I'm perfectly comfortable with the idea that what I'm being asked to do is enforce them.

So yeah, I like to think that if I found myself in the middle of a WC QF, I'd referee in the manner that got me there - mandatory cautions and all.

Men in Black said:
In the grand scheme of things the referee only had to give 2 cautions in the whole 90 mins, he had respect & complete match control.
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And you're comfortable with the idea that a player who dived twice might have scored the goal that kept Brazil in the game and potentially led to knocking Belgium out? You'd be fine with that if we sub the word "England" in for "Belgium" in that sentence?

Match control and low number of cautions are nice, well done ref. But you still have to get the basics right first.
 
deusex said:
Interesting, I haven't noticed this. Do you have a page number?
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I'm assuming he is referencing page 109 of 2017/18:

Law 13.3

"If, when a freekick is taken, an opponent is closer to the ball than the required distance, the free kick is retaken unless the advantage can be applied; but if a player takes a free kick quickly and an opponent who is less than 10 yards from the ball intercepts it, the referee allows play to continue. However, an opponent who deliberately prevents a free kick from being taken quickly must be cautioned for delaying the restart of play."
 
GraemeS said:
I'm not the terrifying disciplinarian that some people on here claim to be, but I like to think that I have a good grasp of the laws, and I'm perfectly comfortable with the idea that what I'm being asked to do is enforce them.
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Funny thing, thinking about this world cup is that if I ever got to that stage (pipe dream), I'd do as the authorities say because I want to get far in the tournament.

If I got the final though, I'd revert to type. Wonder if we'll see that happen at this tournament?
 
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