Man City vs Arsenal

[bloovee]

It is a pen for me. You can’t blame players for going down easy when they get results. You don’t get rewarded for being honest and staying on your feet. I don’t think it’s C and O, and I think a lot of people in football hate seeing this sort of thing because of Bernardo going down as he did.

I was saying to bloovee though, I thought it was undisputed that Bernardo went down easy. Can you blame him? No. Did he go down too easy though? Yes

Possibly - but on TV it would be Xhaka "gave the referee a decision to make" and Bernardo "was entitled to go down". None of the nonsense commentary and aftermath we've had.

I've got time on my hands now (tested positive for Covid this a.m.) so we could do this all week.

I see some earlier on in the thread thought Ederson was looking to play the ball and Odegaard went over the ball onto Ederson's ankle. I wouldn't dream of suggesting Odegaard didn't need to leap in the air.

 

[RustyRef]

To take an analogy that has been used and twisting it slightly. If I'm in the street on my way to KFC and someone pulls my shirt it doesn't make me fall over forwards, but it does delay me getting my three piece chicken meal. Replace KFC with Arsenal's goal.

 

[Anubis]

Well, he was pulled sideways not back, but let's face it if it was Salah falling forwards from a hand on his shoulder, the word "outrage" would be nowhere. Ronaldo penalty last week?

And the "highlights" didn't show Jesus being wrestled down in the PA, or this - which I'd have wanted to go to VAR (and it might have done if Dias hadn't been offside).

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Maybe the key is having no interest in the players name or shirt, and focussing only on the deception,
Its not about what other players do or might do ( for me)
its based on this incident regardless of shirt worn, and, its cheating

 

[Anubis]

Did he hold him, yes or no? He has a clear handful of his shirt, and whilst I agree that wouldn't make him go over it probably did prevent him progressing forward. We all know that there is an unwritten rule that you don't get a penalty if you stay on your feet, which unfortunately has been caused by referees over many years, so I don't really blame players for exaggerating the fall when there has been an offence against them.

The only person getting the blame here should be Xhaka for yet another moment of stupidity.

Falling forward with your arms out to cushion your ( self enduced) fall is deception
deception is simulation
simulation is our kind word for cheating.

 

[bloovee]

Both Ronaldo and Salah take a lot of criticism for how they go down. Salah was universally mocked as a diver for a long time, and still is. Meanwhile Ronaldo had multiple accusations of cheating for how he went down against Norwich, but that was a pen. Did Ronny need to throw himself down to the floor and scream? No. Did he win the penalty he deserved because he did that? Yes. But to act like there’s some conspiracy against City players is insane, especially to bring up two players criticised more than anyone for “diving.”

We can hardly say there's a conspiracy after yesterday. It's the media bias that's just so transparent. Good grief - someone above thought having McManaman on the BT team meant he was there to be pro-City.

 

[Anubis]

To take an analogy that has been used and twisting it slightly. If I'm in the street on my way to KFC and someone pulls my shirt it doesn't make me fall over forwards, but it does delay me getting my three piece chicken meal. Replace KFC with Arsenal's goal.

so were you to fall forward, you be guilty of deception

( i cant recall the Arsenal goal)

 

[Joshref]

We can hardly say there's a conspiracy after yesterday. It's the media bias that's just so transparent. Good grief - someone above thought having McManaman on the BT team meant he was there to be pro-City.

Because only City have bias against them. I guarantee you if you ask any Manchester United fan or Liverpool fan what they think the media is, they’ll say that the media are biased against them. It’s just how fans view it. I guarantee you both those fans will say they think the media is pro-City or whoever their rivals are.

The fact it’s divided refs on here says it’s not as clear cut as what you make out, even if I do agree with you. However I agree with you on the BT Sport teams reaction yesterday, it was a joke. But as Steven Chicken (local journalist, covers Huddersfield Town often) pointed out in what I thought was a good Tweet, it’s a widespread thing.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1477287539375579142

What are everybody’s thoughts on what he says here and the follow up Tweets

 

[bloovee]

Falling forward with your arms out to cushion your ( self enduced) fall is deception
deception is simulation
simulation is our kind word for cheating.

I think you might need to go back to the book.

"An action which creates a wrong/false impression that something has occurred when it has not" or "pretending to have been fouled".

What has not occurred? Xhaka's leg outstretched, or the handful of shirt? Was Bernardo not fouled?

 

[bloovee]

Because only City have bias against them. I guarantee you if you ask any Manchester United fan or Liverpool fan what they think the media is, they’ll say that the media are biased against them. It’s just how fans view it. I guarantee you both those fans will say they think the media is pro-City or whoever their rivals are.

The fact it’s divided refs on here says it’s not as clear cut as what you make out, even if I do agree with you. However I agree with you on the BT Sport teams reaction yesterday, it was a joke. But as Steven Chicken (local journalist, covers Huddersfield Town often) pointed out in what I thought was a good Tweet, it’s a widespread thing.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1477287539375579142

What are everybody’s thoughts on what he says here and the follow up Tweets

You'd be better posting the tweets on the VAR thread, but the media bias against City is clear. The only outrageous thing about yesterday's game was the BT coverage ("Only City fans want City to win").

 

[Anubis]

I think you might need to go back to the book.

"An action which creates a wrong/false impression that something has occurred when it has not" or "pretending to have been fouled".

What has not occurred? Xhaka's leg outstretched, or the handful of shirt? Was Bernardo not fouled?

seeing that leg, and drooling at the chance clatter into it, is cheating

cheats have no part in ( my) world of football.


you of course are welcome to sprinkle rose petals in your world of football for such acts, thats the beauty of individuals

 

[Anubis]

I think you might need to go back to the book.

"An action which creates a wrong/false impression that something has occurred when it has not" or "pretending to have been fouled".

What has not occurred? Xhaka's leg outstretched, or the handful of shirt? Was Bernardo not fouled?

How does one pretend to have ones shirt pulled, by falling forward?

given its genetically impossible...it only leaves, by deception

 

[PinnerPaul]

"Media bias against ....... is clear" - you could insert any team in that box and find that on the internet.

Disappointing to find it on this site though.

For balance GL on MOTD said he thought referee got the major decisions right and Arsenal didn't have anything to moan about.

An adverse comment or two 'media bias' does not make.

 

[QuaverRef]

In my eyes, both are penalties but I actually think the shirt pull is irrelevant from the decision, though the shirt grab does help sell it. Bernardo is going down before that grab, but through contact from Xhaka leaving the leg dangling.

However, whilst I think the arsenal claim should have been a penalty, it was correct to not go to VAR in my opinion. if you’re having to combine the changing angles, zooming in to within an inch of the ball and slow it down, that’s not a clear and obvious error. The contradiction there though is we’ve seen those techniques used to give a penalty in other games which highlights the inconsistencies again.

 

[Ross]

Getting a little bit tired of the world hates city posts. Enough!

 

[Matthew]

In my eyes, both are penalties but I actually think the shirt pull is irrelevant from the decision, though the shirt grab does help sell it. Bernardo is going down before that grab, but through contact from Xhaka leaving the leg dangling.

However, whilst I think the arsenal claim should have been a penalty, it was correct to not go to VAR in my opinion. if you’re having to combine the changing angles, zooming in to within an inch of the ball and slow it down, that’s not a clear and obvious error. The contradiction there though is we’ve seen those techniques used to give a penalty in other games which highlights the inconsistencies again.

I’m completely with you on the second point. If you need that many angles it ceases to be a clear and obvious error and shouldn’t be subject to a pitch side review. I’ve seen angles where it looks stonewall and others where it looks like Ederson takes the ball cleanly (which I don’t think he did).

I think we’d all be happy if those kind of calls were left on the pitch, but the inconsistent application means that there ends up being a massive debate all the time.

 

[bloovee]

An angle I've not seen before... first angle is nearest to Mr Attwell's view, I guess.

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[Redster]

I'd like to see an addition to the laws where embellishment or simulation lead to an indirect freekick against the offender regardless if whether they were fouled or not. Of course, one would still punish SFP and reckless challenges, but if a player starts going down early or in a way which is done to sell the referee a decision, they deserve to lose the restart in my view

 

[Kent Ref]

It is a pen for me. You can’t blame players for going down easy when they get results. You don’t get rewarded for being honest and staying on your feet. I don’t think it’s C and O, and I think a lot of people in football hate seeing this sort of thing because of Bernardo going down as he did.

I was saying to bloovee though, I thought it was undisputed that Bernardo went down easy. Can you blame him? No. Did he go down too easy though? Yes

Just to be clear what do you mean when you say "Can you blame him? No.?

 

[Kent Ref]

I didn’t think it was a pen at all, and at the very least it wasn’t a clear and obvious error. Yet all my friends, including the City fans, seem to unanimously think Arsenal were robbed. What do you guys think?

Out of interest if there was no grab at the shirt would people still be thinking penalty? Def not for me. The slight pull at the shirt is the only credible attempt at a foul for me.

 

[Joshref]

Just to be clear what do you mean when you say "Can you blame him? No.?

Can you blame a player for going down easy if it wins him a penalty? No you can’t

Out of interest if there was no grab at the shirt would people still be thinking penalty? Def not for me. The slight pull at the shirt is the only credible attempt at a foul for me.

The post that you quoted was about the first penalty