Players "going down easily" need to be cautioned for simulation. This happens so rarely. I wonder how many players have been cautioned this season in the premiership - i'd guess 4.
Man City vs Arsenal
- Thread starter Joshref
- Start date
But can you blame a player for going down easily though. It’s winning them penalties because they’re being rewarded for that behaviour
Because this is the internet i cannot understand whether you think it's right or wrong for a player to go down easily. For me "you can't blame them" SUGGESTS this is ok to do so.
Anubis
RefChat Addict
The upsetting thing ( in football terms) about the clip is the referee initially made it clear, " no, get up"
Which is how I, and hopefully officials not sucked in by the shenanigans, would treat it, leave the attacker wallowing in the mire, in the absence of stopping the game, brandishing a yellow and saying to the player as you do. " thats an affront to the laws of the game, its cheating, and i will not tolerate that on my pitch today"
instead the attacker has a spirit guide who makes his dreams come true and suddenly the desperation to win the pk by hook or by crook, pays off.
Yeah, that was me and sort of in jest in response to a reply I got. Think both are 50/50s and the referee's decision should have been upheld
one
RefChat Addict
No it is not OK. But you cant blame them because referees reward them for it by giving the penalty. The people you blame for this is the referees who reward the 'dives'.
I would say that going down easily is different to simulation, as ‘easily’ suggests there contact. Just because the motion of the fall is exaggerated doesn’t mean that it’s not a penalty. We’d all like it gone from the game but unfortunately we’re in a situation where it’s almost a requirement to get the foul. In a way, There’s blame on the officials as much as the players with that
In terms of what we want to see in football, it’s not ok and it’s the wrong thing to do. I hate it with a passion. But for the player, it’s right for them to go down easily. They’re getting rewarded for it with a penalty, why would they do anything different?
Phrase it like this. Do you want to watch a football game and see a player going down easy? No of course you don’t.
If you are a player and you get a penalty for going down easy. Of course you would!
What do you think City players, management and fans would be happier with? Playing “honestly” and losing 1-0? Or what happened?
one
RefChat Addict
I disagree with for this specific case. Yes there was contact and yes there was a shirt hold. But he could have stayed on his foot and he didn't (I don't blame him). As per one of my earlier posts, had he stayed on his foot he would not have had a penalty. In fact the original decision was not a penalty. It was his deliberate going to the ground that changed that decision. If you look at the definition of simulation/deceive in the book, this fits the definition perfectly.
socal lurker
RefChat Addict
This idea that referees lose control......so if the ref doesn't give the decisions one team wants and they lose discipline then the ref has lost control? Its absolute nonsense. The players lost control, the ref did not.
socal lurker
RefChat Addict
That's an oversimplification. There are absolutely games where the R loses control by not fully appreciating the game being played before him and not finding an appropriate level of control of the game. Of course, that doesn't mean that every game that goes sideways is because the R lost control. IMO, it is important for us as referees to evaluate our own games that go (or start to go) sideways to consider if we contributed to that sideways drift and could have done something to prevent it.
PinnerPaul
RefChat Addict
Whilst that is sometimes true, I have seen one mass con and half a mass con in two recent QPR games, both down to stupidity of the players.
QPR v Bournemouth - Bournemouth player tries to waste time by sitting on the floor, QPR player tries to drag him up, next minute 20 players run from miles away to get involved including one QPR player already on a yellow who helpfully grabs a Bournemouth player round the neck - this in the 91st minute - easy red.
Yesterday, poor challenge by Birmingham player, ref calls it right away, actually has the yellow card in his hand when players from both sides start a bit of handbags - why?!
Even had one myself at the end of an Isthmian U18s game recently because one player didn't like the way an oppo player shook his hand! Mass con 20 players plus the coaches - again as a team of 3 - our fault?
Do think the instances where its the players 'losing control' far outweigh the instances when its the referee's 'fault'.
Oh no it doesn't. (Pantomime season).
On a more serious note VAR means a player is more likely to feel the need to demonstrate that he's been fouled, and even with VAR a player who tries to stay on his feet is not usually getting the penalty. No-one is being rewarded for honesty.
Given some of the grappling offences not given in recent weeks, the attempt to redefine holding to mean enough to impede progress is clearly a dead duck law already. If your opponent has got a fistful of shirt he's doing it to try and impede your progress.
Last edited:
socal lurker
RefChat Addict
Sure. And we can even go farther and say that the players are always at fault when we get to a mass con or similar situation, as nothing a ref can do would excuse such behavior. And it absolutely true that some explosions come out of nowhere and the R could have done nothing to prevent. But my point is that it is an oversimplification to say that there is never an element of the R losing control--especially at the levels most of us ref. One of the things we can do is deescalate growing tensions—if we recognize the build up up. So when we have games go in the crapper, we should always ask what we could have done differently or better in the build up--not to self flagellate or excuse misbehavior by the players, but to learn from what happened and use that to have a better outcome in the future. And sometimes the answer to that reflection is going to be that there was nothing we could have done.
ChasObserverRefDeveloper
Regular Contributor
But law defines it as impeding progress, not trying to - an important difference.
Agree and that much is obvious tbh. But we're talking about PL matches here. Refs don't lose control. Most decisions bring the same result regardless of the referee in charge. Professional players have to be professional and not allow frustration to effect their performances.
This shouldn’t be the case though. VAR coming in should mean players don’t have to go down so easy and still get a foul if it’s deserved
one
RefChat Addict
Not quiet sure I agree with this. This is the very thing we are trying to rid football of, players deliberately going down because the believe they have been fouled.
I also think what the referee on the day believes is a lot more relevant that us here on the forum. And as already said, the ref initially didn't give the foul, and without the dive I am reasonably certain VAR would not have recommended a OFR.