The Ref Stop

Man City v Arsenal

The Ref Stop
ChasObserverRefDeveloper said:
LAW 12 - Unsporting Behaviour, shows lack of respect for the game.
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I kinda guessed if this comment by someone on social media is correct it would be that exact punishment.
I was laughing at the last sentence which just shows how people are so clueless about laws of the game.

But this is just another reason why I feel no go zones should be in place if players go down injured. And most of the time this type of thing happens with the keeper down as the onfield players get the instructions.
 
Ben448844 said:
I am and was a "normal fan" long before I became a referee at 32 years old (and I still play).

If you're refereeing to the Doku action then that was very much different as Oliver was pointing where the free kick was to be taken and Doku was kicking it in that direction. The idea of "consistency" is a myth and completely ignores the fact that every situation is different.

What will happen is that the push on DRS yellows will fade away now like every other PGMOL initiative in the PL era (along with accurate injury time, push on dissent, moving the ball forward 10 yards for dissent at free kicks, shirt pulling in the box etc etc).
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You are probably right, though can you imagine if they attempted to have a zero tolerance what would happen. There would be yellow cards flying everywhere until the penny dropped, but this would take at least a few weeks if not months and during this time, spectators and arm chair viewers will feel they are wasting their money and that Referees/PGMOL are spoiling what still currently is the best league in the world. At least they try and give a go, but the players and clubs do their own thing to the detriment of the game. The PGMOL/Referees I feel to a certain extent are in a no win situation.
 
Ben448844 said:
What will happen is that the push on DRS yellows will fade away now like every other PGMOL initiative in the PL era (along with accurate injury time, push on dissent, moving the ball forward 10 yards for dissent at free kicks, shirt pulling in the box etc etc).
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Given that we are now into Year 2 of the participant charter and the clips / training delivered to PGMOL officials "doubled down" on all the initiatives first introduced last year, I would beg to differ
 
The Gump said:
Bu**er - I’m sure I read it somewhere at the start of the season? Or was it a trial?

Either way, no chance of enforcing it at grassroots and retaining any credibility imho.
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An indirect free kick is awarded if a goalkeeper, inside their penalty area, commits any of the following offences:

controls the ball with the hand/arm for more than six seconds before releasing it

Copied from the LOTG 24/25.

It's definitely still 6 seconds, I can't recall ever seeing ANYTHING about 8 seconds until I've just seen it, reading this thread.
 
Russell Jones said:
Given that we are now into Year 2 of the participant charter and the clips / training delivered to PGMOL officials "doubled down" on all the initiatives first introduced last year, I would beg to differ
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The C2's that do not represent obvious dissent to the spectator are a step too far
I don't think the PGMOL's efforts are bearing any fruit. Unless it's a second yellow (which it rarely is), the players don't care
It may even be the case that the slew of cards are only serving to exacerbate a lack of respect for MO's
On that basis, I think they'll ease off. I hope so. I don't believe in sanitising the game
I'm keen on identifying that behaviour which really needs decisive intervention
 
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Big Cat said:
The C2's that do not represent obvious dissent to the spectator are a step too far
I don't think the PGMOL's efforts are bearing any fruit. Unless it's a second yellow (which it rarely is), the players don't care
It may even be the case that the slew of cards are only serving to exacerbate a lack of respect for MO's
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I accept that the efforts may or may not be successful (and it's a fine line between protecting the image / spectacle of the game and harming it). I was just pushing back on the notion that the current initiatives might be 'short lived' or easily discarded.
 
Russell Jones said:
I accept that the efforts may or may not be successful (and it's a fine line between protecting the image / spectacle of the game and harming it). I was just pushing back on the notion that the current initiatives might be 'short lived' or easily discarded.
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Yes, but my post was intended to highlight why the tactic will be reigned in (probably)
 
wazztie16 said:
An indirect free kick is awarded if a goalkeeper, inside their penalty area, commits any of the following offences:

controls the ball with the hand/arm for more than six seconds before releasing it

Copied from the LOTG 24/25.

It's definitely still 6 seconds, I can't recall ever seeing ANYTHING about 8 seconds until I've just seen it, reading this thread.
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It's refering to a trial. Not aware of any leagues in England using it.

Incidentally Futsal has used a raised hand for the count for the least few seasons.


Goalkeeper holding the ball for too long | IFAB

www.theifab.com www.theifab.com
 
wazztie16 said:
An indirect free kick is awarded if a goalkeeper, inside their penalty area, commits any of the following offences:

controls the ball with the hand/arm for more than six seconds before releasing it

Copied from the LOTG 24/25.

It's definitely still 6 seconds, I can't recall ever seeing ANYTHING about 8 seconds until I've just seen it, reading this thread.
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I have never seen that enforced. Ref will give a yellow card from a goal kick as it’s an easier punishment to adhere to with little consequence for play.
 
wazztie16 said:
An indirect free kick is awarded if a goalkeeper, inside their penalty area, commits any of the following offences:

controls the ball with the hand/arm for more than six seconds before releasing it

Copied from the LOTG 24/25.

It's definitely still 6 seconds, I can't recall ever seeing ANYTHING about 8 seconds until I've just seen it, reading this thread.
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we were told at a meeting about law ammendements wth the rdo the keeper now had 8 seconds.
 
Russell Jones said:
Prior to Doku kicking the ball, Michael Oliver was very clearly telling players that the ball was in the wrong place and needed to be moved backwards before the kick could be taken. As such, Doku's intervention could be seen as helpful (or neutral at worst). It certainly didn't meet the stated criteria (Clear, Deliberate, Impactful) for when players should be sanctioned for DTR.
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Have to disagree. Oliver clearly pointed to where it should be taken from and he has kicked it away from the two arsenal players and away from the area it should have been taken from. It's not even close to where the foul too place. Arsenal players were ready to take the free kick.

Trossard was 0.82 seconds after the ref's whistle. Doku has purposely waited then kicked it to ensure city players are set.
 
Russell Jones said:
Given that we are now into Year 2 of the participant charter and the clips / training delivered to PGMOL officials "doubled down" on all the initiatives first introduced last year, I would beg to differ
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There is a very clear reduction in the amount of stoppage time this season & that is not because there are less stoppages. We regularly saw 8-12 minutes each half this time last season and this is not the case now.

There is no evidence that any initiatives have ever been consistently applied over the years. There is plenty evidence to the contrary. With the dissent initiatives, time will tell. But it must be said that having another dissent initiative just further emphasises the failure to consistently apply previous ones.
 
Ryanj91 said:
Have to disagree. Oliver clearly pointed to where it should be taken from and he has kicked it away from the two arsenal players and away from the area it should have been taken from. It's not even close to where the foul too place. Arsenal players were ready to take the free kick.

Trossard was 0.82 seconds after the ref's whistle. Doku has purposely waited then kicked it to ensure city players are set.
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Happy to disagree :). For me, he kicked it away from the spot where Arsenal players were incorrectly attempting to take the Free Kick. Certainly a dangerous and unnecessary thing to do but far more in keeping with the referee's obvious desire than Trossard (who IMO could just as easily have been cautioned for the original foul or for dissent by action when he booted the ball away, clearly in anger and to no one in particular!
 
Ben448844 said:
There is a very clear reduction in the amount of stoppage time this season & that is not because there are less stoppages. We regularly saw 8-12 minutes each half this time last season and this is not the case now.

There is no evidence that any initiatives have ever been consistently applied over the years. There is plenty evidence to the contrary. With the dissent initiatives, time will tell. But it must be said that having another dissent initiative just further emphasises the failure to consistently apply previous ones.
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The directives have been tweaked to reduce the added time for goals (30 seconds is now considered 'standard' so only time above this is added) which therefore reduces things by around 2 mins per game. Add in less VAR interventions and you probably have your answer as no other guidance has altered.

I totally agree that past initiatives have come and gone quickly, often within a few weeks. The difference here is that we have already had a whole season and going forwards the dissent / DTR guidance for 24/25 is completely unchanged. Plus these initiatives were bought into ahead of time by ALL parties rather than just the refereeing authorities going 'rogue'!

Having said all of that, you still might be correct. I just sincerely hope not (not least for the sake of all other referees who are able to cite "TV actions" to support their own) and am merely giving my input based on what's being currently being drummed into all PGMOL officials on a weekly basis.
 
Russell Jones said:
Prior to Doku kicking the ball, Michael Oliver was very clearly telling players that the ball was in the wrong place and needed to be moved backwards before the kick could be taken. As such, Doku's intervention could be seen as helpful (or neutral at worst). It certainly didn't meet the stated criteria (Clear, Deliberate, Impactful) for when players should be sanctioned for DTR.
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I have looked through the LOTG, Law 12, section 3 is where I am looking and I don't see the words clear, deliberate or impactful in this section. If yoh can point me to tge part of LOTG these words are tgat would be great.

Was Doku's action in kicking the ball to a person away from the area the free kick should have been taken not deliberate? MO knew what Doku was doing and as such he had a quick word and gave him a look. Then with the time between the foul being given and the kick away from where the free kick should have been taken, does this not fall into the excessively delaying the restart remit?
 
Faris said:
I have looked through the LOTG, Law 12, section 3 is where I am looking and I don't see the words clear, deliberate or impactful in this section. If yoh can point me to tge part of LOTG these words are tgat would be great.

Was Doku's action in kicking the ball to a person away from the area the free kick should have been taken not deliberate? MO knew what Doku was doing and as such he had a quick word and gave him a look. Then with the time between the foul being given and the kick away from where the free kick should have been taken, does this not fall into the excessively delaying the restart remit?
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You're right, those words are not in law. They formed part of the guidance to the higher level officials when the revised tolerance level on DTR was introduced a year ago and have remained in place since. They are meant simply to help clarify on which occasions the restart has actually been delayed by the player in question .. and all three are required, not just one! Of course, we will never get perfect consistency on this (or any other type of decision) .. but the intent is to, over time, eradicate the obvious "anti football" antics from our beautiful game!
 
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