Man City v Arsenal

[The Gump]

Am I missing something, or are you talking about the six second rule? But, c’mon, the ship has long sailed on enforcing that in the professional game. I can only think of one example of it ever being called in a pro game—in the WWC. You can’t blame the R for doing what every other professional ref in the world is doing.

Should this change? IMO, yes, but that’s really a different discussion.iMO, it should be 10 seconds, with a visible count toward the end, and the consequence should be either a CK or an IFK at the nearest edge of the PA—to soften the messy consequences that can make Rs reluctant to call it.

It charged from 6 to 8 this year. TBF, you never hear a grassroots player start complaining until anywhere between 10 and 15 seconds, and even then they’re only bothered if the game’s tight at the end.

I guess it’s an inadvertent positive of the rules not being enforced at elite level, but they honestly may as well remove it from the LOTG.

 

[JamesL]

Should this change? IMO, yes, but that’s really a different discussion.iMO, it should be 10 seconds, with a visible count toward the end, and the consequence should be either a CK or an IFK at the nearest edge of the PA—to soften the messy consequences that can make Rs reluctant to call it.

IFAB are actively looking into the 6 second rule and trialling methods to improve this aspect of the game.

 

[David G]

Hopefully something that is realistic. I hope also they can look again at a goal kick being taken from anywhere within the goal area, because rather than saving time on delaying the re-start of the game, it often causes it, especially by the winning team or the team that are content with a draw!

 

[Joshref]

I’m actually not a big Oliver fan, something I’ve stated on here before, and being a United fan I dislike both teams but prefer Arsenal.

But how the Trossard red is being debated is insane. I understand the argument with Doku but Trossard was so obvious and so insane I was gobsmacked. I called him an idiot live as he did it, I was genuinely shocked as to why he would think it was a good idea.

 

[DJIC]

It charged from 6 to 8 this year. TBF, you never hear a grassroots player start complaining until anywhere between 10 and 15 seconds, and even then they’re only bothered if the game’s tight at the end.

I guess it’s an inadvertent positive of the rules not being enforced at elite level, but they honestly may as well remove it from the LOTG.

Still 6 second rule for 2024/25 season.

Being looked at by IFAB to increase to 8 or 10 seconds & referee counts down from 5, but not in law yet.

 

[Faris]

But how the Trossard red is being debated is insane. I understand the argument with Doku but Trossard was so obvious and so insane I was gobsmacked. I called him an idiot live as he did it, I was genuinely shocked as to why he would think it was a good idea.

I didn't think there was an issue with the red card for Trossard. But yet again, the laws aren't applied consistently in the same game for the same offence.

Doku deliberately kicked the ball to different Arsenal player away from the free kick location and delayed the restart. MO had a quick word with Doku and no sanction.

I felt it ruined the game as a spectacle and was avoidable as he could have just had a chat with Trossard and given him the same benefit of doubt that Doku had received earlier. The Rice incident a few weeks ago was completely different.

 

[Ori]

I do wonder how we can enforce this 8 second rule.
Time wasting is so rarely enforced in the premiership and even when it has been enforced, it was enforced badly with booking the wrong player or whatever.
Goalkeeper gets booked for time wasting and yet have we ever seen a 2nd yellow for it?

I’m not saying we should be sending players off for that, we are supposed to be able to add time if we see it, but again how often do we see it?
We were getting 15 min additional time added per half, but even that has been eroded away.

In the premier league. Drop the match to 60 minutes and have the time managed by an off the pitch official who stops the clock everytime the ball is out of play.

Would be impossible at grass roots, but at top flight?

Rant over.

 

[The Gump]

Still 6 second rule for 2024/25 season.

Being looked at by IFAB to increase to 8 or 10 seconds & referee counts down from 5, but not in law yet.

Bu**er - I’m sure I read it somewhere at the start of the season? Or was it a trial?

Either way, no chance of enforcing it at grassroots and retaining any credibility imho.

 

[bester]

Very easy to enforce at grassroots. Just do a verbal countdown and the goalkeeper will get rid of it.

IFAB were proposing 8/10 seconds with the restart changing to a corner.

 

[socal lurker]

I do wonder how we can enforce this 8 second rule.
Time wasting is so rarely enforced in the premiership and even when it has been enforced, it was enforced badly with booking the wrong player or whatever.
Goalkeeper gets booked for time wasting and yet have we ever seen a 2nd yellow for it?

I’m not saying we should be sending players off for that, we are supposed to be able to add time if we see it, but again how often do we see it?
We were getting 15 min additional time added per half, but even that has been eroded away.

In the premier league. Drop the match to 60 minutes and have the time managed by an off the pitch official who stops the clock everytime the ball is out of play.

Would be impossible at grass roots, but at top flight?

Rant over.

Your solution wouldn’t affect the 6 second rule, as the ball is in play when held by the GK.

 

[socal lurker]

Very easy to enforce at grassroots. Just do a verbal countdown and the goalkeeper will get rid of it.

IFAB were proposing 8/10 seconds with the restart changing to a corner.

I certainly would not recommend a verbal countdown, as that makes it hard to not call it—and you don’t want to be the only one calling it. “Let’s go keep!” Almost always suffices.

 

[RefIADad]

As an admitted Michael Oliver fan, I did not think this was one of his better performances. Even discounting the Trossard second yellow controversy (by now, players should realize they are playing with fire messing with the ball, but I won't really comment on that as plenty of others have) and the controversy around the free kick, I just think 1) he set too high of a bar for fouls and 2) he was far too aloof in dealing with players. I get it - his "brand" is his poker face and his ability to not look too frazzled. But I've long said he needs an "a$$ kicking" gear. Even Clement Turpin, who has a similar type of personality as Michael Oliver, has that ability to give a butt-chewing when it's needed.

After the Haaland foul on Saliba about 10 minutes in, Oliver really needed to light into somebody if he wasn't going to card Haaland. I fully grant that he generally is able to de-escalate things with his really calm demeanor. But I think a big-time bollocking of SOMEONE would have made a big difference today.

 

[ladbroke8745]

I want to know how Haaland wasn't cautioned at all in the game. Aside from the challenge mentioned above against Saliba early in the game...
You got Haaland throwing the ball at an Arsenal player after Stones goal and then he recklessly charges in to an Arsenal player at the restart causing a come together for a lot of players.

2 seasons ago, he got a total of 5 EPL and 1 CL caution. Since then, just 1 caution in EPL last season and 1 this, so far.
And I would actually say he can be a thug a lot of the time. Just seemingly gets away with it all the time.

 

[Russell Jones]

Would really like to hear the communication between the team for Doku kicking the ball away Vs Trossard.

Doku deliberately kicked the ball to different Arsenal player away from the free kick location and delayed the restart. MO had a quick word with Doku and no sanction.

Prior to Doku kicking the ball, Michael Oliver was very clearly telling players that the ball was in the wrong place and needed to be moved backwards before the kick could be taken. As such, Doku's intervention could be seen as helpful (or neutral at worst). It certainly didn't meet the stated criteria (Clear, Deliberate, Impactful) for when players should be sanctioned for DTR.

 

[santa sangria]

As an admitted Michael Oliver fan, I did not think this was one of his better performances. Even discounting the Trossard second yellow controversy (by now, players should realize they are playing with fire messing with the ball, but I won't really comment on that as plenty of others have) and the controversy around the free kick, I just think 1) he set too high of a bar for fouls and 2) he was far too aloof in dealing with players. I get it - his "brand" is his poker face and his ability to not look too frazzled. But I've long said he needs an "a$$ kicking" gear. Even Clement Turpin, who has a similar type of personality as Michael Oliver, has that ability to give a butt-chewing when it's needed.

After the Haaland foul on Saliba about 10 minutes in, Oliver really needed to light into somebody if he wasn't going to card Haaland. I fully grant that he generally is able to de-escalate things with his really calm demeanor. But I think a big-time bollocking of SOMEONE would have made a big difference today.

Excellent post. Was thinking the same.

Felt like MO did not lift himself. Overall the game was massive and it seemed too big for him - not a good sign for our best referee!

Massive players (imagine whistling Haaland, Silva, Rodri, Sake). The off-field politics cast a massive shadow. And the two coaches - argh - with Arteta, we have a classic case of Last Week’s Ref - he is a walking technical area offence. And then Pep IMHO got away with the biggest offence of the match when he assaulted the bench. The cameras also didn’t show the bench handbags at the goal.

The 4th handled things very differently from
AT in the earlier match where 4th Taylor binned both head coaches and called the on-field red card. No consistency!

 

[Ben448844]

Well I'm afraid Michael Oliver has made a rod for his own back there. Fail safe when he brings Walker in to speak to him has to be to make sure he is back in position - same as with a substitution.

I think he will be kicking himself on that one - of course Walker should be smarter in getting back quickly, but it's an avoidable problem.

The Trossard sending off in contrast is 100% player stupidity

Agreed. He lost concentration and allowed the free kick to be taken too early. He even raised his whistle to his mouth but didn't blow which further incensed Walker. It's not a failure of law but a failure of process. Maybe the ARs could got on the comms to help out out ultimately Oliver was at fault there and he will own that I'm sure and move on. He is and has been one of the best in the world for a long time, but anyone can have a poor game under such high pressure. 2nd yellow is the fault of Trossard & he and Arteta should own that too, but I'm afraid they won't, at least publicly anyway.

 

[deusex]

He is and has been one of the best in the world for a long time, but anyone can have a poor game under such high pressure.

Interesting that only referees think this, I don't know a normal football fan that agrees.
Not that in itself proves anything.

For me he is like an "arty" movie that people pretend is top notch to appear smarter to their peers. But hey-ho, opinions and all that.

I must protest your insinuation that this performance was somehow a one off. Making a big decision randomly and then not even being consistent with it in the very same game is practically MO's calling card.

Him even getting this fixture was odd after another high profile "interesting" performance last season.

 

[bester]

Taylor has been viewed by FIFA/UEFA as the number 1 English ref, while PGMO seem to think it's Oliver.

 

[Ben448844]

Taylor has been viewed by FIFA/UEFA as the number 1 English ref, while PGMO seem to think it's Oliver.

They both went to the Euros which shows how highly they're both rated.

 

[Ben448844]

Interesting that only referees think this, I don't know a normal football fan that agrees.
Not that in itself proves anything.

For me he is like an "arty" movie that people pretend is top notch to appear smarter to their peers. But hey-ho, opinions and all that.

I must protest your insinuation that this performance was somehow a one off. Making a big decision randomly and then not even being consistent with it in the very same game is practically MO's calling card.

Him even getting this fixture was odd after another high profile "interesting" performance last season.

I am and was a "normal fan" long before I became a referee at 32 years old (and I still play).

If you're refereeing to the Doku action then that was very much different as Oliver was pointing where the free kick was to be taken and Doku was kicking it in that direction. The idea of "consistency" is a myth and completely ignores the fact that every situation is different.

What will happen is that the push on DRS yellows will fade away now like every other PGMOL initiative in the PL era (along with accurate injury time, push on dissent, moving the ball forward 10 yards for dissent at free kicks, shirt pulling in the box etc etc).