United spurs.

[RustyRef]

If I for some reason wanted to completely sabotage VAR and try to get it removed from the game, I couldn't do any better than make the VAR rules what they currently are. The phrase "Clear and obvious" would


Stop a promising attack?

The fact that SPA is a caution doesn't give a player carte blanche to kick an opponent when the ball is nowhere near. A challenge can be both SPA and SFP, and in that case you obviously penalise the more serious of the two.

 

[deusex]

The fact that SPA is a caution doesn't give a player carte blanche to kick an opponent when the ball is nowhere near. A challenge can be both SPA and SFP, and in that case you obviously penalise the more serious of the two.

Agreed. But for SFP I need at least endangering the safety of any opponent/ brutality/excessive force.
I see non of those.
There are tackles every game that have 0 chance of getting the ball (Martinez in this very game was much more dangerous) and they are nothing more than cautions 90% of the time.
I'm failing to see what upgrades this to SFP.

There's no force.
No speed.
Not particularly high.
Chance of injuring opponent: negligible
All the malice in the world can't make this limp dangling leg anything more than reckless.

 

[es1]

Overturned, as expected

 

[deusex]

Overturned, as expected

I genuinely can't remember a weaker SFP decision in England. (I'm sure I've forgotten loads)

Kavanagh's 2nd RC overturned in 2024?
His AR and VAR have thrown him right under the bus here..

Ironically, many Man Utd fans wanted him suspended. He has been DIRE this season yet the clueless manager refuses to drop him.

 

[es1]

I genuinely can't remember a weaker SFP decision in England. (I'm sure I've forgotten loads)

Kavanagh's 2nd RC overturned in 2024?
His AR and VAR have thrown him right under the bus here..

Ironically, many Man Utd fans wanted him suspended. He has been DIRE this season yet the clueless manager refuses to drop him.

Evidence why the current process simply does not work.

 

[Runner Ref]

Evidence why the current process simply does not work.

What process would you suggest? Serious question!

 

[deusex]

What process would you suggest? Serious question!

Ditch the "Clear and obvious" standard.
It's so ambiguous and varies from person to person.

The objective should simply be "Make the right decision".
In the few occasions it could go either way just get the referee to the monitor! I don't care if it takes 2 minutes to get a RC decision right!
Much easier to stomach than the current VAR lottery.

OR scrap the whole thing.
Refereeing was undoubtedly less shambolic before VAR.
People could mostly accept humans make mistakes when they get one view.
People do not accept a guy in a booth watched it 4 times and still gets it wrong.

 

[The Ginger Ref]

If you're going to point fingers, then I think they need to be aimed at the AR who clearly gave the decision and recommended a red card

And then they need to point towards Craig Pawson Peter Bankes who hasn't recommended a review.

Whilst he is the match official, Kavanagh is the innocent party in this one for me.

 

[deusex]

If you're going to point fingers, then I think they need to be aimed at the AR who clearly gave the decision and recommended a red card

And then they need to point towards Craig Pawson who hasn't recommended a review.

Whilst he is the match official, Kavanagh is the innocent party in this one for me.

Agree, but I think Peter Bankes was VAR and Pawson 4th

 

[The Ginger Ref]

Agree, but I think Peter Bankes was VAR and Pawson 4th

Read the wrong person ...

 

[Runner Ref]

Ditch the "Clear and obvious" standard.
It's so ambiguous and varies from person to person.

The objective should simply be "Make the right decision".
In the few occasions it could go either way just get the referee to the monitor! I don't care if it takes 2 minutes to get a RC decision right!
Much easier to stomach than the current VAR lottery.

OR scrap the whole thing.
Refereeing was undoubtedly less shambolic before VAR.
People could mostly accept humans make mistakes when they get one view.
People do not accept a guy in a booth watched it 4 times and still gets it wrong.

So if you don’t have clear and obvious, what do you have? Saying ‘make the right decision’ is all well and good, but football isn’t black & white enough to simply be able to say that on most decisions. We could say it for the ball out of play in the Norwich game as that’s matter of fact, but pretty much everything else in football is down to interpretation.

We basically had a non clear & obvious mantra/interpretation last season, and they were getting criticised for getting involved too often. Now they’re trying to lessen their involvement and people still moan.

I’d be for scrapping it or a challenge based system.

 

[es1]

What process would you suggest? Serious question!

@deusex has pretty much covered it.

What is the most right answer or what outcome does football expect...

You'll never get consistency or 100% accuracy but what we have now is awful

Challenge system is by far and away my preferred solution but I can't see it happening

 

[DavidObs]

Please remember all that we are talking about different processes here. There could still have been a situation whereby if VAR had viewed it would have still resulted in a red card because not a clear and obvious error, but that would not have negated the player’s appeal and being exonerated by the appeal panel. However, I suspect the MCS will come to the same conclusion as the Appeal Panel.

 

[Runner Ref]

@deusex has pretty much covered it.

What is the most right answer or what outcome does football expect...

You'll never get consistency or 100% accuracy but what we have now is awful

Challenge system is by far and away my preferred solution but I can't see it happening

The bit in bold is a phrase I despise. Who is football and who decides what it expects? If we were to have a vote on a decision, what percentage do we need for something class as football expecting that outcome?

 

[es1]

The bit in bold is a phrase I despise. Who is football and who decides what it expects? If we were to have a vote on a decision, what percentage do we need for something class as football expecting that outcome?

It's a perfectly valid phrase. Not suggesting it's the single criteria to consider, but in many situations it'll give us a better outcome than the current var process

 

[Runner Ref]

It's a perfectly valid phrase. Not suggesting it's the single criteria to consider, but in many situations it'll give us a better outcome than the current var process

How does it though? FA used to always say the phrase at training seminars, but no one could even pin down what it means. If you can’t define what it means, how can it add any value?

Sky Sports did a poll on whether Fernandes deserves red; 61% no & 39% yes. At what point can we say football must have expected red?

 

[es1]

How does it though? FA used to always say the phrase at training seminars, but no one could even pin down what it means. If you can’t define what it means, how can it add any value?

Sky Sports did a poll on whether Fernandes deserves red; 61% no & 39% yes. At what point can we say football must have expected red?

Football absolutely expects a yellow for this. Polls influenced by fans are irrelevant.

No one can define clear and obvious...so...yeah

 

[Runner Ref]

Football absolutely expects a yellow for this. Polls influenced by fans are irrelevant.

No one can define clear and obvious...so...yeah

But how can you say football expects yellow if you can’t decide who football is? If it’s not the fans, what is it?

My definition of clear and obvious is 9 out of 10 people need to look at an incident and decide it’s wrong. Anything lower suggests isn’t clear or obvious.

 

[es1]

But how can you say football expects yellow if you can’t decide who football is? If it’s not the fans, what is it?

My definition of clear and obvious is 9 out of 10 people need to look at an incident and decide it’s wrong. Anything lower suggests isn’t clear or obvious.

One person can't decide that though

 

[Runner Ref]

One person can't decide that though

Eh?