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GraemeS said:
Very clear DOGSO for me, I think It really should have been given live though.

And yes to the VAR theory question, although not a clear foul for me.
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Does it need to be clear, if reviewing red card. If he thinks hey, that's a foul that caused the Hb? I don't think it does...
 
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Alex Rush-Fear said:
To be honest I thought it was a foul, and there's nothing to say he couldn't have changed his decision to a defensive free kick, but I was only expecting the yellow to be (correctly) upgraded to red.
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Yes. Clear dogso. The, what I thought was a, foul is what made it an interesting review.
They didn't seem to show that very well to the referee.
He should be allowed to see all of the play. They are often selective about what they show the R
 
alexv said:
For me, that was a yellow card, but I would like them to be red cards. I've said it before on here - I would like the law to say something like 'if a player makes a deliberate, reckless challenge with no attempt to play the ball, it should be a red card'. To me, it looked a red from first viewing, but the replay showed a low point of contact, and not much force behind it at all. The speed made me think red initially, but I don't think this ticked the SFP boxes. I think it was a yellow card, but I can understand red. I think there should be more clarification in law whether challenges like this (with no attempt to play the ball) should be seen as reckless, violent or dangerous
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Do you think a careless challenge with no attempt to play the ball should be a yellow? Just curious.
 
JamesL said:
Yes. Clear dogso. The, what I thought was a, foul is what made it an interesting review.
They didn't seem to show that very well to the referee.
He should be allowed to see all of the play. They are often selective about what they show the R
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well, the VAR is going to show where the VAR thinks the error (or missed incident is) unless the R asks to see something else. So the VAR is only going to show the possible prior foul if the VAR thinks it was a C&O foul in the build up to what would be a send off.

Ironically, I believe that this could have an odd permutation. If the VAR believes there was an attacking foul before the cautionable foul, there cannot be a review; but if the VAR believes there was an attacking foul before the cautioned foul AND that the yesllow should have been red, it becomes reviewable. (Similar to the OS that was given (yesterday?) on VAR review, which (assuming protocols were followed), was only possible because the VAR concluded that it would have been a PK without the OS.)
 
Jacktscallaghan said:
Do you think a careless challenge with no attempt to play the ball should be a yellow? Just curious.
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In my head, that would just be a trip, usually for SPA which is a yellow anyway. I can’t think of a situation where there’s a careless trip with no attempt to play the ball that isn’t stopping a promising attack if that makes sense
 
Should have found a way to bet on Kuipers for final ref while we were waiting on the red card check! I had a two minute window where I knew it was coming.
 
If the R is giving HB, it has to be DOGSO. As we frequently see, the R took the safe decision with VAR available to re-referee, but in doing so the R has probably cost himself further progression
I'd like to see the R show the courage of his conviction in that situation and not rely on VAR to finish what he (the R) started
 
Karasev really should be giving that as a red card straight off. VAR has bailed him out, but that was a blatant red card and I suspect the fact that VAR had to bail him out will count against Karasev. Pity as he was pretty good overall.
 
cwyeary said:
Should have found a way to bet on Kuipers for final ref while we were waiting on the red card check! I had a two minute window where I knew it was coming.
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Alas, I'm not sure anyone takes bets on that. It's only a select few of us who take an interest in such things!
Probably the only thing in the tournament we might struggle to gamble our match fees on
 
Big Cat said:
If the R is giving HB, it has to be DOGSO. As we frequently see, the R took the safe decision with VAR available to re-referee, but in doing so the R has probably cost himself further progression
I'd like to see the R show the courage of his conviction in that situation and not rely on VAR to finish what he (the R) started
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I'd agree that this is a miss that I think the ref needs to get right on the field.

In reality, this was Karasev's last game no matter what. His AR2 had a pretty poor game too.
 
Big Cat said:
If the R is giving HB, it has to be DOGSO. As we frequently see, the R took the safe decision with VAR available to re-referee, but in doing so the R has probably cost himself further progression
I'd like to see the R show the courage of his conviction in that situation and not rely on VAR to finish what he (the R) started
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But that's stupid. That's an easy red and as you say, he's likely cost himself progression. So referees who allow VAR to do their jobs for them will find themselves loosing out to those who just referee properly....
 
GraemeS said:
But that's stupid. That's an easy red and as you say, he's likely cost himself progression. So referees who allow VAR to do their jobs for them will find themselves loosing out to those who just referee properly....
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Yes, that's what I'm saying. Stupid of the Ref
You're so primed to disagree with me you even give it a good go when completely 'on side' 😂
 
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alexv said:
For me, that was a yellow card, but I would like them to be red cards. I've said it before on here - I would like the law to say something like 'if a player makes a deliberate, reckless challenge with no attempt to play the ball, it should be a red card'. To me, it looked a red from first viewing, but the replay showed a low point of contact, and not much force behind it at all. The speed made me think red initially, but I don't think this ticked the SFP boxes. I think it was a yellow card, but I can understand red. I think there should be more clarification in law whether challenges like this (with no attempt to play the ball) should be seen as reckless, violent or dangerous
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For me the replay shows the Wales player deliberately kicking his opponent. VC and a red card every day of the week - definitely not SFP.
 
RustyRef said:
Karasev really should be giving that as a red card straight off. VAR has bailed him out, but that was a blatant red card and I suspect the fact that VAR had to bail him out will count against Karasev. Pity as he was pretty good overall.
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I’m guessing that because the play was outside of him, he didn’t have confidence in where the defenders were and whether that element was met. I do wonder if he would have gone red if it wasn’t a VAR game or wasn’t a knockout game where the red would have so much impact on who would go through.
 
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