I agree with your final paragraph. Most peoples expectations I think can in most cases be spectators of those teams involved, especially any team that loses. Although I’m not overly keen on either I think Carragah and Neville have a bit more empathy towards Referees - certainly more than they used to, which has to be a good thing.
CHE vs FUL
- Thread starter Joshref
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For me, the bottom line is that VAR was sold to fans as being introduced for those shockers - Henry against Ireland for example. When you now have goals being disallowed for something that happened 20 yards inside the opposition’s half that most people in the ground would’ve missed, ‘football’ doesn’t expect that goal to be overturned. It also feels like re-refereeing the game too much. It’s also why VAR was always going to be challenging, there are a lot of grey areas in football - some matches you’ll let things go to let the game breath, other games you can’t. How many times do you hear that’s not enough for a penalty… And this is why VAR is so challenging, it’s clinical - which football and how it’s traditional been referee never has been
See I actually think PGMOL holding there hands up here is a good thing simply because it is basically showing a logical human side to officials and helps with credibility and respect backing officials after errors damages officials credibility with fans , FIFA and UEFA
Hearing the audio on this incident and whilst I can still understand the VAR recommending a review, I'm not sure he really took the referees description of "two players challenging in the same space" into any consideration at all because hearing the ref say that and then seeing the pictures then I think you could back up that decision.
However it seems the referee did not see the step onto the foot going by what he said whilst at the screen and if he did he would of blown for a foul and none of this would of happened.
Howard Webb trying to boast the PL has the least interventions compared to other leagues which is all well and good but that shouldn't negate the fact if the VAR sees a foul in his opinion then he should be recommending a review. The way Howard went on here makes it sounds like this is a terrible decision and I believe this is only because of the reaction, it's a subjective decision which some might intervene and some won't. For me Michael Oliver's non intervention in the Liverpool game(which was not shown) for the DOGSO is even worse than this because that seems to be a true VAR error of check completing the situation and not seeing the clear handball in that game.
However it seems the referee did not see the step onto the foot going by what he said whilst at the screen and if he did he would of blown for a foul and none of this would of happened.
Howard Webb trying to boast the PL has the least interventions compared to other leagues which is all well and good but that shouldn't negate the fact if the VAR sees a foul in his opinion then he should be recommending a review. The way Howard went on here makes it sounds like this is a terrible decision and I believe this is only because of the reaction, it's a subjective decision which some might intervene and some won't. For me Michael Oliver's non intervention in the Liverpool game(which was not shown) for the DOGSO is even worse than this because that seems to be a true VAR error of check completing the situation and not seeing the clear handball in that game.
The key part of Webb's explanation for this not being a foul was 'high threshold for contact in the Premier League'. In other words they don't want to uphold the definition of a careless foul as by not doing so they can allow more goals and contact for the entertainment of spectators, and avoid any distracting arguments / media criticism over 'soft' fouls disallowing goals. It was telling that they did not display the definition of careless foul on the programme, despite usually showing what the Laws say.
The problem is when this inevitably distorts expectations for the rest of the game.
The problem is when this inevitably distorts expectations for the rest of the game.
So as I keep saying, Webb care more about the stakeholders/people in the game because they want too see goals and not see goals being ruled out by VAR rather than having his officials upholding the laws of the game.
A careless foul is a foul, it should not be ignored just because a goal has been scored.
There are many incidents during any game at any level that can by some Referees be deemed careless and some consider not careless/not any foul at all. Much of this will depend on the level & type of game. In respect of the specific incident you are alluding to - some see it as a careless foul and some don’t see it as a foul at all & in this scenario Webb is saying that the high threshold/bar should have been adopted & I can see where he is coming from. Not an exact science and sometimes hindsight is the only way that this can be determined. However, this is the skill that is required by VAR operators/officials.
Problem is, you can't tell these days whether the player is genuinely injured or just faking it
I honestly don’t think it was a over reaction given it’s the most Boney bit of the foot so if he doesn’t stay down I want him drug tested doesn’t make it a foul though
Especially with the incredibly flimsy boots they wear these days, if someone stands on your foot it is going to hurt.