Running the line Sunday

Ciley Myrus said:

Certainly in Scotland, until they put you on a near definate path to progression, its 60/40 middles to line for a bit, as others have said, who better to learn off than the guys just above you. You then get to learn what you expect of your assistants as you progress too
A cup semi after half a dozen games is an honour. I would doubt someones ability (anybodys, not just yours) in such a short space of time, to be profficient at such an important match
Extra positive, you wont have to submit cautions, the referee will do it all, I suppose just for clarity you could ask the ref post match if they are indeed submitting their sanctions
I also dont think "ex footballer" is accurate, not just on a referee cv but if you use that on your work cv too. Again as other folk have pointed out, majority of refs will have played to some level at some point. I suppose because I did karaoke in 1999 i should put ex singer on my cv at some point.

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I hope your little dig regarding my yellow card last week is tongue in cheek, or have u managed to find out my identity and report me yet!

Who said anything about putting footballer on a cv this is a chat forum and i played football for 20yrs, I think you better go and take your medication and have a sit down!

No interest in finding out who you are, just relieved that you did the correct thing last week
Unless am reading it wrong, you played at "a level" up till 16 and got scouted by a club but nothing more than scouted. Most the posters on here will have similar playing careers.
No medication for me, getting packed for two games, a boys u14 semi as ref then a semi pro line cup tie in afternoon, tbh like you, running the line is not my idea of a perfect afternoon out, but after near 30 years, I think I have the experience to make an informed decision as to what running the line means.
That, and we are always short of numbers and the national association ask nicely!

Semi Pro? Didn’t realise there was even a professional game in Scotland.

Men in Black said:

Semi Pro? Didn’t realise there was even a professional game in Scotland.

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Am not Scottish so having a dig at the standard of football in the country I live in goes over my head
no, no professional football in Scotland, just a pig bladder for a ball and jumpers for goal posts.
Enjoy your line appointment, mind share your fustration at not being in the middle with the referee, after the month you have been refereeing I agree you should be on that plane to Russia.

Something nobody else has mentioned, so I'll throw it in here... @Men in Black how is your fitness? Depending on the game, you can burn a lot more calories on the line than in the middle. In the middle, you can control your position, you can "pace" yourself so to speak. On the line, you have no such choice - you have to be in line with that second last defensive player. One of the teams enjoy playing fast long balls... be ready for lots of sprinting - don't forget you're responsible for whether the ball is over the line or not, so you have to keep pace with ball and/or players the full length of your half - far deeper than you're likely to have done in the middle. Goal-mouth scramble - that trip to the final for the winning team could well come down to your judgement call - be ready to deal with it, and make sure you're in the right position to make the call.

Practice crabbing before the game - your first proper line, and your muscles will not be used to it.

Remember, keep the flag in the hand closes to the ref - typically your left hand, but if you turn and run to the halfway line, move the flag to your right hand. Never cross hands with the flag up, always when the flag is down. Be prepared for some "bants" with spectators - you're a lot closer to them on the line, and there will more than likely be far more there at a semi-final than you will have had so far in the middle - so be prepared for some abuse.

A strong challenge goes in near you, yet the ball goes forward to an attacking player. Foul or no foul? Onside or offside? ****, where was the attacking player at the point the ball got played forward, you were busy concentrating on whether a foul had been committed or not. A matter of seconds later, a cry for a goal goes up - did all of the ball go over all of the line or not? Can't tell, the confusion of the foul/no foul, offside/not offside means you're five yards away from where you should be. The ref is desperately trying to get eye contact with you, get your non-verbal opinion, but you're everywhere, losing focus. Because of the reaction of the goalkeeper, the ref awards the goal: defending team, coaches, manager, spectators are screaming at you that you missed a simple offside, the ball didn't go over the line, a mass confrontation is developing in the goal area, what should I be doing, where did the ref brief me to go if this happened, have I remembered my notebook and pen in my pocket... Maybe five seconds from foul/no foul to goal decision. Are you ready for that?

All this to say that being a NAR isn't as simple as you might think, and is in no way comparable to a CAR. NAR appointments on a semi final and indeed a final can be tough, challenging appointments, where you have to bring to play a whole other range of skillsets to being in the middle. It is never "just" running the line. Go and appreciate the semi-final appointment, often rewards for "good service" during the season, stand proud to the challenge, and come back after the game to let us all know how you got on.

xPositor said:

Something nobody else has mentioned, so I'll throw it in here... @Men in Black how is your fitness? Depending on the game, you can burn a lot more calories on the line than in the middle. In the middle, you can control your position, you can "pace" yourself so to speak. On the line, you have no such choice - you have to be in line with that second last defensive player. One of the teams enjoy playing fast long balls... be ready for lots of sprinting - don't forget you're responsible for whether the ball is over the line or not, so you have to keep pace with ball and/or players the full length of your half - far deeper than you're likely to have done in the middle. Goal-mouth scramble - that trip to the final for the winning team could well come down to your judgement call - be ready to deal with it, and make sure you're in the right position to make the call.

Practice crabbing before the game - your first proper line, and your muscles will not be used to it.

Remember, keep the flag in the hand closes to the ref - typically your left hand, but if you turn and run to the halfway line, move the flag to your right hand. Never cross hands with the flag up, always when the flag is down. Be prepared for some "bants" with spectators - you're a lot closer to them on the line, and there will more than likely be far more there at a semi-final than you will have had so far in the middle - so be prepared for some abuse.

A strong challenge goes in near you, yet the ball goes forward to an attacking player. Foul or no foul? Onside or offside? ****, where was the attacking player at the point the ball got played forward, you were busy concentrating on whether a foul had been committed or not. A matter of seconds later, a cry for a goal goes up - did all of the ball go over all of the line or not? Can't tell, the confusion of the foul/no foul, offside/not offside means you're five yards away from where you should be. The ref is desperately trying to get eye contact with you, get your non-verbal opinion, but you're everywhere, losing focus. Because of the reaction of the goalkeeper, the ref awards the goal: defending team, coaches, manager, spectators are screaming at you that you missed a simple offside, the ball didn't go over the line, a mass confrontation is developing in the goal area, what should I be doing, where did the ref brief me to go if this happened, have I remembered my notebook and pen in my pocket... Maybe five seconds from foul/no foul to goal decision. Are you ready for that?

All this to say that being a NAR isn't as simple as you might think, and is in no way comparable to a CAR. NAR appointments on a semi final and indeed a final can be tough, challenging appointments, where you have to bring to play a whole other range of skillsets to being in the middle. It is never "just" running the line. Go and appreciate the semi-final appointment, often rewards for "good service" during the season, stand proud to the challenge, and come back after the game to let us all know how you got on.

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The fitness issue for the AR is an interesting one. I didn't/dont find the role in any way physically challenging, but 'crabbing' for 90/120 mins was murder on my feet!

For me also, its mentally tougher being on the line as opposed to the middle. In the middle you can change directions, dictate your own tempo, engage in dialougue and keep focussed, on the line you can be stuck just staring into space for periods of time then whoosh, from out of nowhere, that killer through ball and hey, you have lost the strikers run...

Ciley Myrus said:

For me also, its mentally tougher being on the line as opposed to the middle. In the middle you can change directions, dictate your own tempo, engage in dialougue and keep focussed, on the line you can be stuck just staring into space for periods of time then whoosh, from out of nowhere, that killer through ball and hey, you have lost the strikers run...

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All AR's have a full half of the pitch to patrol, whereas some referees only have 262.68 square meters that they worry about...

Here is another angle.

For any games that matters (and the OP is a cup semi final), there is one CR and two NARs appointed. So we need twice as many ARs as we do CRs. 90% or more of referees prefer doing centres than line. Even those who know doing line benefits them, they still prefer centre and at the very least want more centres than lines (that includes me). So who is going to the lines (twice as many positions as centres) that almost no one wants to do?

You can't cherry pick your appointments. If you do you get found and you will never get any decent games.

I feel really lucky that I get to games as NAR or in the middle with NARs (and don't have CARs ever).

Part of this is a respect thing, part karma. Treat your ARs - and act as an AR - how would want to be treated and how expect your ARs to act. It comes around. Quick. Show respect. Have fun. Don't be afraid to ask difficult questions. Ask for criticism. Take criticism well. And the whole thing is is so much more satisfying than being "on your own" or "stepping down".

No, it's not the same as bonding in a band or in a team, but...

On the fitness for ARs; FIFA and national fitness test requirements have been changing year to year and nation to nation but one thing that is consistent, ARs must have the same endurance as referees but must have better sprinting ability. In addition referees are not tested for agility but ARs are. While you are not the 'boss' in the team, as far as fitness goes, you must be better than the boss.

Was on the line for a semi today. Enjoyable learnt from the ref picked up a few tips and great to share war stories. 2 more lines in the near future and a middle with NARs coming up, must be April!

I ran the line today for a 22 year old ref. He was brilliant. Heavy game, two good sides, 7 YCs. 6 for reckless. Nothing heavier thankfully.

I hope he goes far. It was a treat. He started the game with very strong whistling. When he chose to warn players he was very clear. He was lightning with detecting offside flags. Couple of the bookings he flashed when he could have slowed the game even more. Did the basics well but handled some heavy football very well. Guy is half my age. Respect.

I ran the line last night. Grass roots Final. Got blood blisters from crabbing

Did the line today with a 19 year old ref and an experienced AR. They were simply excellent and as a level 7 just learning the AR role I got some good tips. I still say it's harder than being in the middle.

I was also ar today. Ref was good. Strong, Too late for me to learn from him as am the mentor but, i like to think if i was in middle, my display would have been similar

Men in Black said:

And really not happy about it, it feels like a demotion & also a step backwards.

My league have been great to me since joining and have made sure I’ve got a game every week so I can’t complain to much but I’m just not looking forward to it, I’m ref’n Saturday so Atleast I’ve got a game this wknd but Sunday I feel a bit put out tbh.

Half the money & just up down the touch line for 90mins, I really considered declining the opportunity but a fellow ref and a mate talked me into it, i could have played for my old team Sunday if I had a day off from refereeing but I’ve now agreed to run the line.

I didn’t want to let the league down as they’ve been good to me & I also didn’t want to hamper my chances of future appointments so I’m gonna do it but I’ll make it clear to the league next week that I’d prefer in future not to run the line.

So any thoughts? At the end of the day two months ago I was still a player it was a big transition into being a ref & now this feels like a kick in the nuts id rather play for my old team than be a Lino.

You may all think stupid selfish me but I’m sorry it’s just the way I feel.

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I'm so glad you changed your stance halfway through this thread. I spend a fair bit of time explaining to referees how important it is for them to develop their game by assisting on the Supply League on which I do appointments. As @es1 says, if I ask someone to run a line, it's meant to be taken seriously and provides them with a chance to learn new skils

cwyeary said:

I can't help you out with your feelings on being assigned an AR because I don't understand the UK referee/assigning culture. Being assigned as an AR is apart of the job for me and it's a terrible attitude to have to think it's beneath you. I'll leave that to the UK refs on here. However, since you are new to this I can recommend taking an offside perception test.

https://www.proassistantreferees.com/perception-test-7

It'll be 15 clips. Decide if the player is onside or offside then select the video frame where the players were when the ball was played. Let me know how you did. I'm curious to see what biases (if any) a new AR has.

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Great things these clip compilations. Very useful for development.

Men in Black said:

Maybe your right maybe I’ll be hanging up my whistle before I really got going, it would kinda make sense I guess considering in my 34yrs on this planet I’ve never heard of an ex player becoming a referee.

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As I said so glad you changed your stance as this is the one that almost sent me over the edge and saw me say good riddance. A lot of people are out of football for a long time if they don't make the transition to coach/physio. May as well stay fit and referee.

Men in Black said:

Interesting don’t u think, all the thousands of refs over the years & hundreds of thousands of players yet one has never made the switch

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@RustyRef has covered this nicely. Lots have made the switch. I know of 3 local L3s who all played at a decent level.

Have Leeds handed the Championship trophy back they wrapped up in September??

.You say it's not a 'I'm too good for ARing' thing but that's precisely what it is, even if you don't realise it. That's what you're saying when you say 'I didn't sign up to do that part of the job'. Heard people complaining about ARing all the time. Incidentally nobody who says that sort of stuff about being an AR is actually any good at it. And most of them haven't been the ones who progress too high as a referee either.

Drop your preconceptions about what a load of nonsense it is and give it a chance.

Being an AR is an important part of refereeing. It's also a very important part of learning how to referee. It gives you the chance to contribute to the game in a different capacity - didn't sign up to AR? Deal with it. Every job has bits and pieces you don't like. Push your preconceptions aside, take pride in your role as an AR, approach it with an open mind and you might find you enjoy it. You may even enjoy it more than refereeing.

And if you're better at it than refereeing then it may well be how you get to higher level games.

You've barely started, you have a lot to learn, and being an AR is one of the best opportunities you have to learn. It allows you to see how others referee - and gives you the opportunity to ask them questions about their decisions, their man management, their positioning. Absorb that knowledge an experience and integrate it into your own game to be a better referee.

As for your perspective that you're already better than all the other refs in your area - drop that. If for no other reason than because you're going to keep worrying about everyone else's appointments in comparison to your own rather than just turning up and doing the best job you can. The 'other refs vs me' attitude just tends to cause frustration. And you know, you might even be wrong

Maybe the refs in your area are rubbish - maybe just with your very, very limited experience and time spent applying the text of the LOTG (not to mention your own inherent bias from when you've played), maybe they're actually not as bad as you've thought. I had the same motivation when I was a ****y 15 year old. Made me realise that just because I, as a player, think a mistake has been made it doesn't mean it has. Also made me realise I wasn't really in a position to comment on referees who had read the laws when I hadn't. Made me realise that mistakes will always happen anyway. And also gave me some perspective - like players, referees come of all abilities. I played in a lower grade so wasn't going to get the most amazing referees.

Sure, I DID become better than all of the referees that had refereed me. That's not arrogance - that's reflected on my appointments and the panel I was in. But I also came to realise that some of them weren't nearly as bad as I thought.

Personally, I'm amazed that your league allows referees to nominate not to do the line. We've always told referees to go jump that wanted that. Didn't put up with any of that self-centred nonsense.

Sure, it's half pay - but so what. Everyone has to do pull their weight.

I mean, you got appointed to a semi and you're complaining???

Sure, being on the line can be incredibly boring sometimes. And in poor weather, it can be absolutely miserable. That's the sacrifice you need to make. Like I said, you can learn a lot - and you should take as much pride in a well AR'd match as in a well refereed match.

Given your comment that it's just 'running up an down the touch line' then it seems you've massively underestimated the importance of the AR in managing and refereeing the game, and also sorely misunderstood the roles and responsibilities of the AR. It ain't just 'running up and down the touchline'.

An AR handles incredibly difficult - even impossible - offside decision. Using appropriate teamwork and nonverbal communication the AR will provide the referee with an opinion on whose ball it is before it even goes out - and knows when the ref is looking for their opinion. An AR will not just flag for fouls in their area, but know when not to flag for fouls in their area - and know when the ref is looking for something out of their area. A good AR will know when to jump in and tell the ref - quietly - that they've completely dropped the ball. They'll know what to do when something does - or doesn't - happen around the penalty area. They'll be the one telling the referee what happened when there's a confrontation, and probably even hanging around the edges trying to stop it escalating. They're first on the scene to players near them squaring up, and using their voice and presence to manage players in just the same way as a referee. They manage the location of free kicks, of the wall, while balancing this with managing the benches as well. A good AR knows that only spectators pay at the gate - that they are constantly scanning the field for aggression and off-the-ball incidents and may well know more about who is getting aggro at who than the referee does. A good AR knows that the ref doesn't see everything but there's no excuse for the AR missing something behind the referee's back - and how important that is.[/QUOTE]

Have I touched a nerve

I’m just being honest I became a referee because I thought I could do a better job than the local ref’s who have been in the same leagues ref’n at the same level ever since I can remember none of them have climbed the ladder & it’s been 10yrs + that I’ve played in this league yet still the same old ref’s (the ref in the middle today referred me as a player years ago, we had plenty of run ins, now I’m going to assist him, should be interesting) now although my respect for them has risen & I’ve now got there backs one of my motivations for becoming a referee still hasn’t changed & that motivation was for how bad a lot of them are.

And you mention referee appointments from local leagues etc you just said it yourself you’d tell a ref to go jump, come on we all know it’s like FIFA it’s who you know and if your face fits, it’s like that all the way upto Mr Riley who sits there and cherry picks his favourites, ex professional referees are worse than an old women arguing down at bingo, I’m always hearing them on the radio back stabbing each other, it’s embarrassing.

The way you’ve described being a Lino there sounds like an elite experienced AR, I’ve had no training on being a Lino, I can do the basics but as far as flagging for fouls in my part of the pitch I don’t know when to signal I don’t want to tread on the referees toes everytime I see a foul, if it’s such an important part of progression then why don’t refs have to take a Lino course or Worksop for a few hours Atleast, it’s just a chore that nobody really wants to do let’s be fair.

Anyway I’m doing it, I’m just honest what’s the point of me coming on here and nodding my head and pretending I’m looking forward to today, I’m not above it I just don’t want to do it, not sure what part of that you don’t understand.

I appreciate your extended response by the way, thanks for taking the time to write it, if I hand on heart be totally honest I think part of my problem or infact a big part of my problem is it was hard enough going from player to ref going from one of the lads banter etc to then being alone and the man in the middle having to try to earn respect a different way to what it used to be, my feet have always done the talking and people respected that now I’m up against it & feel that refs are looked down on by players, I had a player yesterday pipe up so I put him in his place for him to turn around and say that’s why I’m the player and your the referee it’s because you can’t play football that’s why you’ve settled for second best, now that’s exactly the attitude some players have I can deal with it because I’ve got the whistle I’m in the middle and ill give it back just as much BUT when the Lino appointment came through I just thougt ffs really!!

Nobody on the planet outside of officiating respects lino’s they have it worse than referees, in all honesty I think we should have robotic Lino guns on a track moving up and down the sidelines giiving 100% correct offside calls everytime, because who in there right mind wants to do a job where they are seen as a the little man on the line with a flag getting his only duty (offside) wrong all game that’s how players and fans see it, I had a fella yesterday two mins into the game confront the Lino I just thougt ffs that’s me tomoz and I won’t even be able to give it back to him.

Anyway must dash got a game to line.