The Ref Stop

WAL vs IRN Matchday 6 - Escobar (GUA)

Robert56 said:
Good performance by Escobar today.With some people mentioning him not being an elite referee is total rubbish and very disrespectful . To get to this level he is elite.
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Sorry, but not issuing the RC for the goalkeeper challenge will have him marked down. Given some of the other performances and the referees who haven't had games, he won't be getting another match at this WC>
 
The Ref Stop
I thought it looked borderline offside but it didn't seem to get mentioned at any point. Wales deserved very little from this game and deservedly lost - and thats coming from a disappointed Welshman :-(
 
lincs22 said:
Sorry, but not issuing the RC for the goalkeeper challenge will have him marked down. Given some of the other performances and the referees who haven't had games, he won't be getting another match at this WC>
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Fair point. But he recognised it was not DOGSO and deemed it to just be yellow. VAR was used correctly and they decided it was serious foul play.
 
lincs22 said:
Sorry, but not issuing the RC for the goalkeeper challenge will have him marked down. Given some of the other performances and the referees who haven't had games, he won't be getting another match at this WC>
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Lack of support from assistant it seems too. I know they're on comms but you'd argue he'd have given a good insight of what happened and helped him on the field.
Position of the referee was appalling I'd argue. He was slow of the blocks to the attack and was potentially blindsided by 2 Welsh players too...
 
Crazy "challenge"! Can't remember a recent WC where every team has played their 1st group games before a red card has been shown. 2nd round of games start and we get our first red of the tournament.

Guessing FIFA were so intent on clamping on lost time (and rightly so), they again completely ignored/forgot a need to deal with growing dissent levels. Not a great advert for the game in that regard.
 
Jurgen Klinsmann very scathing of ref’s performance on BBC studio coverage, felt Iranian players got away with a lot. I totally agree a yellow card(s) for surrounding the referee should have been issued, if only to retain control of who was in charge.
 
santa sangria said:
I think it’s also easy to tell this is not an elite referee based on the signalling and movement. It’s not quite “with the program”.
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As someone who sees Escobar a lot in CONCACAF matches, Escobar definitely is not an elite referee. For some reason, he was pushed by the previous CONCACAF refereeing director. What you saw today is, unfortunately, nothing those of who are US or Mexico fans haven’t seen many times over the years.

The best European example I can give for Escobar is Chris Kavanagh in England. Average at best referee, but he got on the good side of the right people and moved up on things other than pure merit.
 
WRT to DOGSO and SFP
If they BOTH look like Ducks, swim like Ducks and quack like Ducks, leave it to the VAR to determine whether they're both Ducks
And then use the VAR's Refereeing of the game to justify the existence of VAR
WALOFS
 
So and I need to understand this as it slightly confuses me that the keeper misses the ball, then the player comes into him not any other way. If the Keeper connected with the ball in any small amount it would have been the same collision?
 
Big Cat said:
WRT to DOGSO and SFP
If they BOTH look like Ducks, swim like Ducks and quack like Ducks, leave it to the VAR to determine whether they're both Ducks
And then use the VAR's Refereeing of the game to justify the existence of VAR
WALOFS
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There's no good reason why he shouldn't have made this call on the field, and there's no one in football who wants this to go to VAR.

In your conspiracy theory, do you really think this referee will receive pats on the back for missing a simple red card decision and forcing the game to slow down so that VAR can rescue him? It looks poor, players, fans, manager and UEFA will all be far less happy than they would if it was just given straight away.
 
msportstars said:
So and I need to understand this as it slightly confuses me that the keeper misses the ball, then the player comes into him not any other way. If the Keeper connected with the ball in any small amount it would have been the same collision?
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If the keeper gets the ball then yes, I think DOGSO does get taken off the table. If the keeper comes out and clears the ball, then even if he does go on to clatter the opponent (or be clattered by the opponent), there's no way the Iran player could have gone on to score, therefore there's no obvious goalscoring opportunity that has been illegally denied and we don't need to worry about covering defender etc.

Having said that, in this example, he ends up managing to get his foot up to almost head height at the point of contact - so SFP is more likely to be the reason he was sent, and that doesn't necessarily get cancelled out with a trifling touch on the ball.
 
GraemeS said:
There's no good reason why he shouldn't have made this call on the field, and there's no one in football who wants this to go to VAR.

In your conspiracy theory, do you really think this referee will receive pats on the back for missing a simple red card decision and forcing the game to slow down so that VAR can rescue him? It looks poor, players, fans, manager and UEFA will all be far less happy than they would if it was just given straight away.
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Not a conspiracy theory. Conspiracies are intentional. I've no reason to think this is like 'a late offside flag' instruction
This is just an unintended psychological consequence of having Big Brother looking on.
In a sense, I'm defending the Referee because I know he can't possibly be that bad, so as not to identify a swimming, quacking duck
(multiple ducks swimming together on this occasion)
 
GraemeS said:
If the keeper gets the ball then yes, I think DOGSO does get taken off the table. If the keeper comes out and clears the ball, then even if he does go on to clatter the opponent (or be clattered by the opponent), there's no way the Iran player could have gone on to score, therefore there's no obvious goalscoring opportunity that has been illegally denied and we don't need to worry about covering defender etc.

Having said that, in this example, he ends up managing to get his foot up to almost head height at the point of contact - so SFP is more likely to be the reason he was sent, and that doesn't necessarily get cancelled out with a trifling touch on the ball.
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Understood, but in this case the foot was high before the player got there, he was nearly past the player when the collided so I dont see how this is the keeper assaulting the player its just very confusing how this ends up in a red when i cannot see how the law can be used clearly to be red but then I am junior at these things.
 
msportstars said:
Understood, but in this case the foot was high before the player got there, he was nearly past the player when the collided so I dont see how this is the keeper assaulting the player its just very confusing how this ends up in a red when i cannot see how the law can be used clearly to be red but then I am junior at these things.
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There's no real good reason for anyone's foot to be that high - you're always taking a risk by going for that with a foot rather than head. In practical terms, remember that referees are human, and it's unwise to give the referee a reason to even consider a red card.

In terms of the actual law answer, "assault" isn't the threshold that needs to be met here. "Use of excessive force" is what we're looking for in order to require a red card, and putting your boot in and around someone's head when a header would have been the more reasonable choice is excessively and unnecessarily dangerous, hence red being correct for me.
 
Thought the ref ruled out DOGSO as there was cover on the inside and the first touch was away from goal. Once they reviewed it then SFP came into it.
 
Robert56 said:
Good performance by Escobar today.With some people mentioning him not being an elite referee is total rubbish and very disrespectful . To get to this level he is elite.
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I think we have to disagree on this. It was clear in the first half that the referee was not quite convincing. I am comparing to the best referees from the biggest leagues that we see in the later stages in the Champions League. You can see it in players and you can see it in referees.

And in one of the biggest games of his life he was nonchalantly waving away yellow card late tackles and missed an easy red.

I don’t think a massive squad officials from different countries helps!
 
Referee looked quite animated whilst stood in front of the screen. Would to love to hear the conversation between the referee and the VAR, wonder if the referee was trying to justify the yellow card and was persuaded otherwise by the VAR.

Not the first time we have seen a keeper come from flying out and dangerouly battering an attacker at a WC, but at least they got the right decision this time... eventually!
 
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