A&H

Verbal Unsporting Behaviour?

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santa sangria said:
Good creative challenge.

How about: a large bird, Canada goose, has landed on the field just behind the red #10 as she prepares to shoot from outside the box... the bird is between blue #6 and the chance to block the shot, so blue #6 screams at the bird with a deafening shriek. The bird flaps off at pace, with the giant avian’s ellipticals crowding red #10 who scuffs the shot.

Your decision, referee?
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Is that an offence?
 
TSHudson said:
Well yes, you can interpret anything as showing a lack of respect for the game and award an IDFK and yellow card. But you'd end up booking everyone with that low bar. And anything can be deemed as offensive and so it's red cards all round.
Or, as per the way the LOTG are actually written, there is room for an IDFK with no card. So if someone is slightly overstepping the mark with the verbals, but I don't want to set the low bar, that I then have to referee the game to, with a yellow, I read that the laws allows an IDFK for "other".

Incidentally, I've only done this once in 5 years, so this is now a far bigger deal than it warrants, of which I'm the most guilty party. But without the history of how the law developed, I read that there is an allowance for that, even if it is poorly written. Without official clarification from IFAB, that's where I'm leaving it.
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I can almost hear the reversing of your high horse from here.
 
TSHudson said:
I think I said earlier without official clarification, the LOTG in the way they are written, clearly give room for an IDFK with no sanction. With an official (thanks for having contacts in high places to clarify) clarification, all ambiguity over the poorly written laws is removed. So case closed.
Since you have his email, could you ask him how he feels about the ethics of giving phantom fouls? :)
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He was a geography teacher not an ethics teacher.
 
TSHudson said:
I think I said earlier without official clarification, the LOTG in the way they are written, clearly give room for an IDFK with no sanction. With an official (thanks for having contacts in high places to clarify) clarification, all ambiguity over the poorly written laws is removed. So case closed.
Since you have his email, could you ask him how he feels about the ethics of giving phantom fouls? :)
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In fairness you'd been told on this topic that you were wrong by people in reasonably high places such as senior observers, council members, heads of observing schemes, etc, but good to see now that Lord Elleray has confirmed it you are happy for the case to be closed. As @one said, anyone can email questions to IFAB, although I would hazard a guess you will only get an answer when it is black and white and not in the opinion of the referee (e.g. whether there was a foul at a disputed corner or not)

I actually do agree that it could be worded better, but that also applies to most of the other laws and sometimes if you try hard enough you can make many of the laws read in a way that suits your argument.
 
RustyRef said:
In fairness you'd been told on this topic that you were wrong by people in reasonably high places such as senior observers, council members, heads of observing schemes, etc
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Well I think it’s a good thing to not blindly go off opinion, especially when in plenty of other places and by other members on this forum the advice and opinion dished out is not so hot.
 
I had a game last week where the defender shouted to his team mate go through him, referring to the striker. The attacking play reacted to that with some verbals. The defender simply replied take it as a compliment as we can’t get the ball off you. Smiles all round. Wish all verbals ended that way!
 
RustyRef said:
In fairness you'd been told on this topic that you were wrong by people in reasonably high places such as senior observers, council members, heads of observing schemes, etc, but good to see now that Lord Elleray has confirmed it you are happy for the case to be closed. As @one said, anyone can email questions to IFAB, although I would hazard a guess you will only get an answer when it is black and white and not in the opinion of the referee (e.g. whether there was a foul at a disputed corner or not)

I actually do agree that it could be worded better, but that also applies to most of the other laws and sometimes if you try hard enough you can make many of the laws read in a way that suits your argument.
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I wonder how many 'nonsense' emails they get along the lines of is a slight push/accidental trip/innocent challenge a foul?

Maybe not too many - most players/club staff won't go anywhere near the IFAB website and/or LOTG I guess!
 
TSHudson said:
Well I think it’s a good thing to not blindly go off opinion, especially when in plenty of other places and by other members on this forum the advice and opinion dished out is not so hot.
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Not all 'opinion' is equal - a rabid player's interpretations of the LOTG are probably worth a tad less than the hundreds of years actual refereeing experience on show here.

TBF to this site, if someone gets a law wrong they are normally corrected pretty quickly!
 
TSHudson said:
Sure if you could point out where the LOTG state that offences are different inside than outside the PA that would be great. There are not DFK offences and PK offences, there are DFK offences, which result in a penalty if they happen inside the box
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With experience you realise that the law is a framework, one that is more loose in some parts than others. Almost every speaker I have listened to (many, from level 2b to FIFA list) has mentioned some way of going against law in order to keep control of the match.

Some examples could be finding a 'phantom' (soft) defensive foul if you have given a dodgy free-kick, or pulling it back for a foul throw when the opposition player has tried to score when returning it to the opposition goalkeeper... Would you rather a couple of groans and be incorrect in law, or a 22 man riot and 5 red cards? You decide.
 
JH said:
With experience you realise that the law is a framework, one that is more loose in some parts than others. Almost every speaker I have listened to (many, from level 2b to FIFA list) has mentioned some way of going against law in order to keep control of the match.

Some examples could be finding a 'phantom' (soft) defensive foul if you have given a dodgy free-kick, or pulling it back for a foul throw when the opposition player has tried to score when returning it to the opposition goalkeeper... Would you rather a couple of groans and be incorrect in law, or a 22 man riot and 5 red cards? You decide.
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I'd rather consistency :) So does every player, manager, fan and pundit apparently ;)
 
No one answered the flapping bird poser from earlier... DB, IDFK YC for interfering with the bird or does anyone want an IDFK?!
 
santa sangria said:
No one answered the flapping bird poser from earlier... DB, IDFK YC for interfering with the bird or does anyone want an IDFK?!
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Depends whose bird has been interfered with. 🤔

Has to be dropped ball for outside interference
 
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JH said:
With experience you realise that the law is a framework, one that is more loose in some parts than others. Almost every speaker I have listened to (many, from level 2b to FIFA list) has mentioned some way of going against law in order to keep control of the match.

Some examples could be finding a 'phantom' (soft) defensive foul if you have given a dodgy free-kick, or pulling it back for a foul throw when the opposition player has tried to score when returning it to the opposition goalkeeper... Would you rather a couple of groans and be incorrect in law, or a 22 man riot and 5 red cards? You decide.
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A very high level referee told a room of referees that if he EVER penalised a GK for taking longer than 6 seconds to release he wouldn't be refereeing on the PL for a long time!
 
PinnerPaul said:
A very high level referee told a room of referees that if he EVER penalised a GK for taking longer than 6 seconds to release he wouldn't be refereeing on the PL for a long time!
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That's such a strange attitude. I remember when Mignolet got penalised for it in the CL - all the criticism was levelled at the player for taking too long and ignoring the warnings, the referee was praised
 
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