The Ref Stop

Twitter post/rant

I disagree the average should be 70 that would require as many referees to be performing below expected than are performing above. When referees are grouped at skill level that isn't going to happen.
You might have some but thats likely to outweigh those performing at expected or higher.
2ndly it's rare that a referee does every competency at expected and nothing above expected. A referee who knows what the competencies are is likely to put some effort into them to increase their output.
And even when a referee is not performing quite at expected has to be of major development to affect the mark.
It doesn't explain the large disparities in marking that we seem to have across the country and that should be reasonably level and stable but the way referees are grouped and have an understanding of the marking system is going to lend itself to average marks at above expected.

Do agree about the tendency for the average to creep up as the season wears on... Seems odd.
 
The Ref Stop
es1 said:
you may (or may not) have seen this post/rant on twitter

https://twitter.com/x/status/1648647512864043008
the rights or wrongs of openly posting such a thread are separate topic altogether, but much of what he says resonates with me and are things i've observed during my time at L4

referees 'coming off' games injured or otherwise at certain times of the season or due to the appointment of certain observers to preserve marks is something that happens on a weekly basis.
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there must be a better way? why can't we simply not tell the official when they're being observed full stop or just tell the official they're being observed without telling them who it is? that would be a good start...
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One suggestion you propose is not informing the officials when they're being observed or notifying them without revealing the identity of the observer. This approach could potentially be a good starting point to mitigate any potential biases or external influences on the referees. By implementing such measures, the focus could be redirected towards fair assessment and performance improvement without the added pressure or influence from observers.
 
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DerrickLee said:
One suggestion you propose is not informing the officials when they're being observed or notifying them without revealing the identity of the observer. This approach could potentially be a good starting point to mitigate any potential biases or external influences on the referees. By implementing such measures, the focus could be redirected towards fair assessment and performance improvement without the added pressure or influence from observers.
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The only difficulty with that - especially at grassroots - is it would rely on the game details like venue, KO time being unchanged. I’ve lost count of the amount of times I’ve had matches update, even just slightly, which would cause frustration to observers if there was no way of communicating with them ahead of time.
 
alexgr said:
The only difficulty with that - especially at grassroots - is it would rely on the game details like venue, KO time being unchanged. I’ve lost count of the amount of times I’ve had matches update, even just slightly, which would cause frustration to observers if there was no way of communicating with them ahead of time.
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perhaps, but a non-issue (usually) at Step 7 and above
 
At grass roots, as has been said, it would cause problems as venues and kick off times often change.

At supply league and above there would also be issues. If the observer isn't there for the pre-match briefing, and hasn't had any contact with the referee, how does he know what the referee has asked from his assistants? Also, the observer will have had to have had contact with the home club, and they will inevitably tell the referee that he has an observer coming.
 
It's possible to anonymise phone numbers/email addresses using forwarding services, so I don't think that's an insurmountable hurdle. It does cost though, so I don't know if the benefits here would be enough that FA's would want to pay for that kind of service.

I don't think Rusty's second point is a huge problem though - as long as the observer is told what time the briefing will take place, they can be there in time if they want to. And I know that will obviously make their identity clear at that point, but I think even the most cynical ref with the most dreaded observer will still be more reluctant to fake an injury in the warm up and drop an AR in it than they would be to just email a ref sec and get taken off the game a few days ahead.
 
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Until this season one at least one county FA would not tell referees on 7->6 or 6->5 when they were being observed.

One referee told me that on a pre-match kit check in the rain the players were gathered under some trees for shelter. The referee had already spotted the observer, he was also under a tree but some way off and positioned so that he could not see the players or the kit inspection. The subsequent report criticised the referee for failing to perform a kit inspection and thereby allowing a player to wear undershorts that were a different colour to the shorts. The referee used google maps to identify the tree the observer was hiding under and demonstrate that he could not possibly have seen the kit inspection and the report was amended.

Absolutely ridiculous.
 
Trip said:
Until this season one at least one county FA would not tell referees on 7->6 or 6->5 when they were being observed.

One referee told me that on a pre-match kit check in the rain the players were gathered under some trees for shelter. The referee had already spotted the observer, he was also under a tree but some way off and positioned so that he could not see the players or the kit inspection. The subsequent report criticised the referee for failing to perform a kit inspection and thereby allowing a player to wear undershorts that were a different colour to the shorts. The referee used google maps to identify the tree the observer was hiding under and demonstrate that he could not possibly have seen the kit inspection and the report was amended.

Absolutely ridiculous.
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At that level it's not an Observer, it's a Referee Coach, but FA guidance remains the same in that pre-match contact is the norm.
Tha coach should have discussed the pre-match afterwards to get the referee's view, and the referee should have noticed the shorts and dealt with it🤔
 
ChasObserverRefDeveloper said:
At that level it's not an Observer, it's a Referee Coach, but FA guidance remains the same in that pre-match contact is the norm.
Tha coach should have discussed the pre-match afterwards to get the referee's view, and the referee should have noticed the shorts and dealt with it🤔
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At that level it was an Observer, not a Referee Coach, until this season. I started by saying they did not notify referees until this season. If you're going to be pernickety you need to pay closer attention.

Apparently the undershorts were not visible until the player started running and his shorts rode up slightly At half time the referee told him they were not legal but didn't insist he remove them.
 
Trip said:
Apparently the undershorts were not visible until the player started running and his shorts rode up slightly At half time the referee told him they were not legal but didn't insist he remove them
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Really ?? That's one busy observer !

If it's as described, they are picking up on something that in my experience this season is routinely ignored at Steps 1-4
 
GraemeS said:
It's possible to anonymise phone numbers/email addresses using forwarding services, so I don't think that's an insurmountable hurdle. It does cost though, so I don't know if the benefits here would be enough that FA's would want to pay for that kind of service.

I don't think Rusty's second point is a huge problem though - as long as the observer is told what time the briefing will take place, they can be there in time if they want to. And I know that will obviously make their identity clear at that point, but I think even the most cynical ref with the most dreaded observer will still be more reluctant to fake an injury in the warm up and drop an AR in it than they would be to just email a ref sec and get taken off the game a few days ahead.
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I read it as don't tell them they are getting observed full stop, so the first they find out about it is when they get a phone call after the game. Which is how it used to be with many assessors in years gone by.
 
Trip said:
Apparently the undershorts were not visible until the player started running and his shorts rode up slightly At half time the referee told him they were not legal but didn't insist he remove them.
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That's still down to the referee to sort though. You don't just check once at the start of the game and then ignore anything that happens subsequently. If a referee gave me a ridiculous excuse like that I'd be marking him down (if there was still a mark and if I cared about undershorts at that level 😂)
 
RustyRef said:
I read it as don't tell them they are getting observed full stop, so the first they find out about it is when they get a phone call after the game. Which is how it used to be with many assessors in years gone by.
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And I think you have a funny story that resulted in one of your observations, the assessor, watched the wrong referee, or have I imagined that? 🤣
 
Quarryref said:
Really ?? That's one busy observer !

If it's as described, they are picking up on something that in my experience this season is routinely ignored at Steps 1-4
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I got diddled about undershirts this season... As I tend to not be fussy, especially when it is cold.
 
RustyRef said:
That's still down to the referee to sort though. You don't just check once at the start of the game and then ignore anything that happens subsequently. If a referee gave me a ridiculous excuse like that I'd be marking him down (if there was still a mark and if I cared about undershorts at that level 😂)
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How is the excuse "ridiculous?" Okay, so the ref could have noticed during the game and insisted the player remove the undershorts at half time (and made few friends in the process) but prior to that, you can't be expecting the ref to make players lift up their shorts during a pre-match kit check surely? :confused:
 
JamesL said:
And I think you have a funny story that resulted in one of your observations, the assessor, watched the wrong referee, or have I imagined that? 🤣
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Yes, that has definitely happened. And I was assessing one referee when there was a broken leg, the referee on the next pitch was a medic so came to deal with it, my referee took over on his pitch.
 
Kes said:
How is the excuse "ridiculous?" Okay, so the ref could have noticed during the game and insisted the player remove the undershorts at half time (and made few friends in the process) but prior to that, you can't be expecting the ref to make players lift up their shorts during a pre-match kit check surely? :confused:
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I don't mean not spotting it before, I mean not dealing with it once they became visible during the game.
 
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