Superhuman568
Member
This decision was a great one, Bobby Madden is one of the better scottish officials
Scott Arfield Red Card
- Thread starter AirdrieRef
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Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
Its why for me we cant say never ever. Sorry be bore on but its same as, never wear anything but black and so on..
You need to do what's needed at the time. And, it cant be taught, it comes from within.
santa sangria
RefChat Addict
Who tells you that?
Thankfully I've been taught the opposite. Quick yellow or red in the rights situation saves a game and worse.
This clip is amazing. I am also stunned by Madden. Would love to see the assessment...?
Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
2nd nature to him. Just his style. He also escorted players off the pitch from role as 4th man at the final whistle at the Scots Cup final a few years back when fans flooded on and the players got caught up in it. An official would have had every right to bolt down the tunnel but he fended off some supporters who were taking pot shots at the players, preventing them from being hit and also preventing them from being in trouble themselves.
Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
new refs are taught a correct caution procedure, for fear or writing down wrong number, wrong name number on team sheets, to show they can isolate, tell why being sanctioned, slow the game down etc etc etc
clearly the best way, is the one which is most effective at the time.
I understand why they're being told to do that. We've had issues with discipline this season where referees haven't bothered taking names and it's caused all sorts of aggro. It had a knock on effect for my own refereeing as well, which has been a new learning experience for me.
Personally, I think a fast card at the appropriate time really can defuse a situation and I'm not averse to using it. So far, not been told off for it so.
Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
I understand why they're being told to do that. We've had issues with discipline this season where referees haven't bothered taking names and it's caused all sorts of aggro. It had a knock on effect for my own refereeing as well, which has been a new learning experience for me.
Personally, I think a fast card at the appropriate time really can defuse a situation and I'm not averse to using it. So far, not been told off for it so.
and here is the actual issue. Nothing in the LOTG requires the referee do as told here. So, if there is an issue at all, its within the leagues and their admin and their teams!!
I was basically told years ago to stop, flashing cards, I said why, and the reply was "because we are telling you not too".
which was not then, or now, a good enough answer for me sorry.
10 punches someone, 10 is off, Who 10 is, is not my concern.
Quick red - great.
Getting between the sent off player and opponents - great, given that he was in the goal and there was no way anything could happen behind him.
Getting stuck in by grabbing the GK once they were on the edge of the 6 yard box? I'm far from convinced that was the smart move, I think it looks OK in hindsight because he got lucky and nothing did kick off.
Even with that action, a fight could easily still have kicked off and if that happens, his position to spot any further infringements is terrible. And that's ignoring the fact that the GK could have not known it was the ref and tried to get him off - if he ends up hitting or elbowing the ref in doing so, the ref would be obliged to send him off and it would have been entirely his fault. I can't deny it worked out here, but I definitely don't think I'd be advising new ref's to take that risk.
Getting between the sent off player and opponents - great, given that he was in the goal and there was no way anything could happen behind him.
Getting stuck in by grabbing the GK once they were on the edge of the 6 yard box? I'm far from convinced that was the smart move, I think it looks OK in hindsight because he got lucky and nothing did kick off.
Even with that action, a fight could easily still have kicked off and if that happens, his position to spot any further infringements is terrible. And that's ignoring the fact that the GK could have not known it was the ref and tried to get him off - if he ends up hitting or elbowing the ref in doing so, the ref would be obliged to send him off and it would have been entirely his fault. I can't deny it worked out here, but I definitely don't think I'd be advising new ref's to take that risk.
Superhuman568
Member
I agree, i always warn managers i will be using the numbers provided on the team lines to identify players.
some times players aren't overly keen on providing names anyway.
Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
this ref has handled confrontations like this for 10 years plus, including at grass roots with no security, no cameras and no ARs etc
and, funny enough, am full of praise because its my style too.
never has it caused this ref a problem, nor me, at any level
guess its just an individual preference.
If you don't recognise that incident as sensational refereeing then your hard to please. he defused a bomb, single handed whereas in the other 9 out of 10 cases, the fight would still be going on even now.
Even look at the body language used to dismiss Arfield, its perfection.
Wont be critical of anyone who does step aside but, its not being proactive, you wont see everything by yourself at grass roots anyway, and you run a huge risk of cautioning folk, just cos. Grass roots and you step back here, you do have a brawl on your hands, instead of a confrontation, you prob have sidelines/coaches on too, and all you can do is stand there blowing your whistle praying for it all to end. This is a heated game in the most atmospheric ground in this country. You do what you think is for the best. Luck plays no part in it, very good judgement of the situation does.
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Superhuman568
Member
SFA advise that if your comfortable getting involved with a situation then your allowed to do so, however if it becomes more than 2-3 players then you are advised to remove yourself to be in the best possible position to see further offences.
Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
nearly, replace "need to" with "advised too", bear in mind he got comms and ARs can shout out for other offenders etc.
Superhuman568
Member
It can't be taught, i agree. I'm sure many refereeing nightmares stem from misunderstanding football and the participants. To have your finger on the pulse, it helps to come from a working class background and a lifelong exposure to the game. Copying Madden wouldn't necessarily end well for the rest of us because we don't all possess his presence or ability
Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
that's a good point and total agree, its no good showing this as say a training clip and saying, this is how you do it. Because, its not
But then neither is standing back, watching, then dealing with it afterwards
What works, is, what's best for you in your situation.
In his situation in the clip, its near porn from a referee perspective. For every ref even at the very top, handing it like that might not have been for them.
A good key word missed out along with presence and ability, is confidence. if you don't believe you can deal with the situation that's unfurling in front of you, then no, of course it will go wrong for you
Let's form a Madden Appreciation Society
TBH, i haven't seen enough of him to know if this is the norm for him
Some of the derby games up there eclipse anything thre EPL has to offer
They're off the scale in terms of refereeing difficulty level
Superhuman568
Member
What are your opinions of the actions from the keeper after the challenge?, in my opinion he is trying to deceive the referee with the holding the face and rolling around.
feigning injury comes to mind.
and i am not saying this is less than a red card offence from arfield
feigning injury comes to mind.
and i am not saying this is less than a red card offence from arfield
Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
Trivial and irrelevant for me, very hard sell sending someone off for v/c or SFP then cautioning them for feinging injury
akin to awarding a pk then trying to caution for making the most of it.
Superhuman568
Member
That's a fair point, though i'd argue he's spent 10 seconds rolling about and as soon as the referee has intervened he's became the hard man that tries to square up to everyone, i understand the logic of not giving the caution but i believe it could fall into unsporting behaviour
I do agree that cautioning him would have probably escalated the situation