Rice red card
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D
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Interesting reading all this having defended the decision as being correct in law for the last 24 hours.
Not once have I actually seen anyone quote the exact law which shows black and white that the decision was correct.
"kicking or carrying the ball away, or provoking a confrontation by deliberately touching the ball after the referee has stopped play".
You can argue that it's poor game management, which IMO it was.
You can argue that Pedro should have been booked earlier in the game, which he should have.
But you cannot argue that in law the referee was incorrect to award a yellow card.
As for the suggestion that Veltman should have got a red card, this might be the most worrying thing I've read off the back of this incident.
Not once have I actually seen anyone quote the exact law which shows black and white that the decision was correct.
"kicking or carrying the ball away, or provoking a confrontation by deliberately touching the ball after the referee has stopped play".
You can argue that it's poor game management, which IMO it was.
You can argue that Pedro should have been booked earlier in the game, which he should have.
But you cannot argue that in law the referee was incorrect to award a yellow card.
As for the suggestion that Veltman should have got a red card, this might be the most worrying thing I've read off the back of this incident.
He was technically correct in Law, so that’s that , but ….(all been covered in other posts)!
Wrong.
There are different circumstances when a player must be cautioned for unsporting behaviour including if a player:
attempts to deceive the referee
Not by the good book it wouldn’t.
If you watch the full clip, he tries to clip the ball to his winger. He doesn't try to launch the ball. When he makes contact with Rice, it is minimum force.
Veltman is 100% at it. But deception here, is wild.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-media-max-width="560"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">So many weird events in Declan Rice red card<br>1. Is it even a freekick to begin win? <br>2. Veltman doesn't take the freekick from where he was fouled<br>3. Veltman threw the ball at Rice who is walking away.<br>4. The ball is still moving as Veltman goes to kick it<br>5. Veltman kicks him <a href="https://t.co/3WExPiTX5a">pic.twitter.com/3WExPiTX5a</a></p>— Charles Davie (@chuckdavie) <a href=" ">August 31, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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one
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At best, this argument is out of ignorance for lotg, at worst it's trolling.
deusex
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Why?
D
Deleted member 13306
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Because you have to prove without a shadow of a doubt that he’s not trying to kick the ball rather than the man. With 100% certainty. And he’s looking down the pitch when he kicks it and as he’s kicking it Rice kicks the ball away.
We all think that he’s trying to he clever and get Rice in trouble .. but given the way it plays out, nobody ‘knows 100%’ that what he’s done is a deliberate, violent act.
You have made some good points here and you are correct, by the letter of the law the Referee is 100% correct. But could it have been expected that a Referee at this level and also for the next few levels below have managed the situation in a different way with a different outcome. I think the answer is yes.
I get that. Let’s move that defender onto the goal line. Is the same call made?
I think not considering the distance of the shot and once again we have subjectivity in hand ball decisions.
I’ve made some edits to posts here.
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Please remind yourselves of the Forum Rules regarding conduct towards one another.
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I'm a Brighton fan but for me Veltman has opened his body, he is looking down the touchline (not at Rice) and is looking to play it up the line for a winger with the side of his foot.
D
Deleted member 13306
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Veltman knows what he’s doing. He may have put it up for sale but Rice bought it. Gamesmanship from both and one of them lost
Yep, at least it should be. We can’t punish someone for something that clearly isn’t a handball offense just because the ball touching their hand meant it didn’t go in the goal.
There’s a reason intent isn’t part of the laws.
I’m of the opinion that the contact not being with the studs, not being made with a huge amount of force and the attempt to play the ball means the force used is not excessive but the argument for a red card is not totally insane. He does kick Rice when the ball’s not in play and he does know Rice is there, and so has a responsibility to make sure he doesn’t kick Rice.
Former premier league ref Mark Halsey on Declan Rice red card incident:"The ball was rolling when Brighton’s Joel Veltman took the free-kick, so the restart would not have taken place as it would have been wrong in Law. Therefore, the delaying a restart does not apply."
"Kavanagh went looking for trouble and he found it. A ref of his calibre at this level should not be sending players off for this.
He should have managed the situation better by speaking to both players. Rice should have received a final warning" [The Sun]
Interesting view.
I don't think the game wants this level of pedantry, but CK was just doing what he was told when issuing a second Yellow to Rice
If indeed, he failed to afford a caution to an opponent earlier in the game for a more obvious C4, then that's very poor. The Brighton player who kicked Rice should've received a Caution
All in all, it was poor officiating and the debate does not really concern whether the second yellow was merited. The bigger picture is the problem
If indeed, he failed to afford a caution to an opponent earlier in the game for a more obvious C4, then that's very poor. The Brighton player who kicked Rice should've received a Caution
All in all, it was poor officiating and the debate does not really concern whether the second yellow was merited. The bigger picture is the problem
Also a fair point by Dermot Gallagher saying that if CK doesn't book him and follows "common sense" then he will be outed for making the wrong decision on Ref Watch.
I try to avoid the opinions of the ex refs who are involved with media apart from DG, just feel like they undermine the current crop too much, and generally aren't the opinion of the PGMOL.
I try to avoid the opinions of the ex refs who are involved with media apart from DG, just feel like they undermine the current crop too much, and generally aren't the opinion of the PGMOL.
Nothing Halsey has said for the past few years has ever been describable as "interesting"
"The ball was rolling when Brighton’s Joel Veltman took the free-kick, so the restart would not have taken place as it would have been wrong in Law. Therefore, the delaying a restart does not apply."
"Kavanagh went looking for trouble and he found it. A ref of his calibre at this level should not be sending players off for this.
He should have managed the situation better by speaking to both players. Rice should have received a final warning" [The Sun]
Interesting view.
Axe grinding maybe