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Player pushed by fan

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Macca said:
But the only reference. I can see to that is celebration of a goal, even if disallowed. This was not that?
Other references relate to team officials.
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Based on previous postings by the individual engaging with you, this one likes to stir trouble. I’ve ignored him, and I believe others have as well.

I also can’t see the video, but based on the comments it sounds like the fan got what he wanted. Unless it’s a Cantona-style assault, I’m not carding. At some point, the player has a right to self-defense. If a player responds, the fan deserves whatever bollocking he gets. Next time, maybe the fan won’t be so much of a moron.
 
I'm with Anubis here, players, indeed any professional athlete, just HAVE to ignore the crowd, whatever the provocation.

Honestly really surprised most seem to think its OK and the ref should just ignore it.
 
RefIADad said:
Based on previous postings by the individual engaging with you, this one likes to stir trouble. I’ve ignored him, and I believe others have as well.

I also can’t see the video, but based on the comments it sounds like the fan got what he wanted. Unless it’s a Cantona-style assault, I’m not carding. At some point, the player has a right to self-defense. If a player responds, the fan deserves whatever bollocking he gets. Next time, maybe the fan won’t be so much of a moron.
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Sorry, but I'm not sure as a referee, judging an incident you haven't seen is a good look!

Secondly, anything less than Kung Fu kick is OK?

Sooooo a player climbs in the crowd has a grapple with a fan and that's "OK" - really?........:eek:
 
PinnerPaul said:
Sorry, but I'm not sure as a referee, judging an incident you haven't seen is a good look!

Secondly, anything less than Kung Fu kick is OK?

Sooooo a player climbs in the crowd has a grapple with a fan and that's "OK" - really?........:eek:
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OK, maybe the threshold is less than a karate kick, but we cannot get to a point where a player goes into the stands in normal effort, gets confronted by a fan, and is expected to just walk away. I thought we were about wanting fans to behave in a civil manner. Maybe I was wrong.
 
Not that it changes much, the yc ans indeed red confirmed as standing
its true simulatiom and mistaken identity are the dyed in the wool reasons a yellow could be withdrawn, that is not to say its impossible to recind others
Had the powers that be really decided the player did not warrant a card here, i think they would have taken it back.
They have not.
 
Again, I don't think the "academic" debate around if the card was correct or not has anything really to do with a post-match decision to not rescind. As you rightly point out, there are specific situations where the authorities will change a decision post-match - opening it out to any situation where a referee has made a subjective yellow card decision (even if it is a second yellow) would be a major departure from everything we've seen from footballing authorities.

Particularly in this case where although a stern talking-to could have been sufficient but a card isn't technically wrong either, this is firmly in the grey area of "SFA wouldn't touch this with a barge pole" either way!
 
GraemeS said:
Again, I don't think the "academic" debate around if the card was correct or not has anything really to do with a post-match decision to not rescind. As you rightly point out, there are specific situations where the authorities will change a decision post-match - opening it out to any situation where a referee has made a subjective yellow card decision (even if it is a second yellow) would be a major departure from everything we've seen from footballing authorities.

Particularly in this case where although a stern talking-to could have been sufficient but a card isn't technically wrong either, this is firmly in the grey area of "SFA wouldn't touch this with a barge pole" either way!
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my point was, if, ( and i agree with the yc), but if the yc was indeed an absolute travesty, there is a slim chance sfa might have went against the norm and scrubbed it. Some good pr for them for a change.
Anyway, further background to the incident is that after being booked the first time, he committed another maybe booking and escaped, so, he was prob walking for anything he next did, esp up to half time.
 
I have the upmost sympathy for the player's human reaction and in the heat of moment has gone with his immediate instinct to confront the first class idiot (albeit wrong from the laws of the game point of view). He will probably look back at it and think to himself if he hadn't have stepped forward and just stood his ground after the push, he wouldn't have received a 2nd yellow. By stepping forward following the push, he has adopted an aggressive attitude and a nailed on yellow.

As for the moron in the crowd, I suspect his enjoyment was short lived, as a result of his arrest and subsequent assault charge. I seriously doubt he will be allowed back into a football stadium for some time and right so! :mad:
 
Mooseybaby said:
I have the upmost sympathy for the player's human reaction and in the heat of moment has gone with his immediate instinct to confront the first class idiot (albeit wrong from the laws of the game point of view). He will probably look back at it and think to himself if he hadn't have stepped forward and just stood his ground after the push, he wouldn't have received a 2nd yellow. By stepping forward following the push, he has adopted an aggressive attitude and a nailed on yellow.

As for the moron in the crowd, I suspect his enjoyment was short lived, as a result of his arrest and subsequent assault charge. I seriously doubt he will be allowed back into a football stadium for some time and right so! :mad:
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While I don't think an unprovoked rugby tackle or kick is right, I do think that if a player goes into the crowd through course of play and a fan is stupid enough to confront the player, caveat emptor for the fan. Or as we say in some parts of the US, "If you mess with the bull, you get the horns."
 
RefIADad said:
OK, maybe the threshold is less than a karate kick, but we cannot get to a point where a player goes into the stands in normal effort, gets confronted by a fan, and is expected to just walk away. I thought we were about wanting fans to behave in a civil manner. Maybe I was wrong.
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Of course we do but if they don't, and when was the last time you were in a 'civil' football crowd ;), we don't want players taking the law into their own hands surely?
 
PinnerPaul said:
Of course we do but if they don't, and when was the last time you were in a 'civil' football crowd ;), we don't want players taking the law into their own hands surely?
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If you can guarantee me that any fan confronting a player who has "accidentally" entered the stands through normal course if play is immediately escorted from the stadium and not allowed back for at least the rest of the season (and that's a minimum penalty - actual physical contact is a more severe penalty than that), then I'll say that players should not confront fans.

I will always assume a fan confronting a player does so with sinister intention until clearly proven otherwise.
 
RefIADad said:
If you can guarantee me that any fan confronting a player who has "accidentally" entered the stands through normal course if play is immediately escorted from the stadium and not allowed back for at least the rest of the season (and that's a minimum penalty - actual physical contact is a more severe penalty than that), then I'll say that players should not confront fans.

I will always assume a fan confronting a player does so with sinister intention until clearly proven otherwise.
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But just like the players, none of that first part is any of your concern. Its the same with yellow/red cards/misconduct - we just report, we don't get involved in the punishments.

The players are there to play, refs are there to ref - in a stadium, at this level, the crowd is looked after by others.
 
PinnerPaul said:
But just like the players, none of that first part is any of your concern. Its the same with yellow/red cards/misconduct - we just report, we don't get involved in the punishments.

The players are there to play, refs are there to ref - in a stadium, at this level, the crowd is looked after by others.
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So you’re saying that when Payet has been hit in the head twice with projectiles this season that it’s none of our concern?

You can’t have it both ways. Are you interested in the safety of players or not?

I will always support players defending themselves. I don’t support vigilante justice. If a player is reasonably practicing self defense, I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt
 
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My thoughts are the referee was correct in law to caution, the player went back at the spectator after being pushed (not unreasonably) but he did cause a safety concern, if the spectator had swung a right hand it would have been a security concern too.

A player must be cautioned, even if the goal is disallowed, for:
  • climbing onto a perimeter fence and/or approaching the spectators in a manner which causes safety and/or security issues
 
RefIADad said:
So you’re saying that when Payet has been hit in the head twice with projectiles this season that it’s none of our concern?

You can’t have it both ways. Are you interested in the safety of players or not?

I will always support players defending themselves. I don’t support vigilante justice. If a player is reasonably practicing self defense, I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt
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Fair enough.

Explain to me how a player taking steps towards a fan in order to aggressively square up to him is safer than the same player a second or two earlier who had been pushed away?
 
RefIADad said:
So you’re saying that when Payet has been hit in the head twice with projectiles this season that it’s none of our concern?

You can’t have it both ways. Are you interested in the safety of players or not?

I will always support players defending themselves. I don’t support vigilante justice. If a player is reasonably practicing self defense, I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt
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I posted the replay to this which is viewable in Australia (and I suspect also in the US). If you watch it you will satisfied that self-defence is not an issue.
 
Yes it works in the US.

And I agree that it has to be a caution.

(I also agree that the “fan“ should be severely sanctioned—but that is not an issue for referees to resolve.)
 
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