I know it's an extreme scenario but I'd still start and play the game then let the team lines take care of themselves afterwards.
Player not on teamsheet
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I know it's an extreme scenario but I'd still start and play the game then let the team lines take care of themselves afterwards.
Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
So you start a game knowing someone who is not on the team sheet is playing?
Extreme again, but does that nullify the need for a team sheet at all?
santa sangria
RefChat Addict
In the OP, if your league requires you check the team sheet, then it’s outside agent, drop ball where they touched the ball earlier.
Round my way though, we check numbers not names. If the number was correct, the other team have to make a complaint to the league. The OP goal would have stood but the match would have been forfeit 3-0 with the possibility of further sanction for the offending team.
Round my way though, we check numbers not names. If the number was correct, the other team have to make a complaint to the league. The OP goal would have stood but the match would have been forfeit 3-0 with the possibility of further sanction for the offending team.
Although it would take someone like Ronaldo for me to stand any chance of noticing there was anything wrong, I don't understand why you would start the game knowing there was an issue like this? Because once you know, you're obliged to stop play the second he touches the ball aren't you? So surely the smart thing to do is nip it in the bud and check with the mangers that everything is correct and you're just being paranoid. Same as if you noticed 12 players on one side before kick off.
Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
Whilst I accept (from earlier posts) that the referee has some responsibility in terms of accounting for substitutes, the fact remains that the referee has no concerns regarding player eligibility or suspension etc
So I'm starting this hypothetical game without a care in the world
If the game hasnt started then we can amend the team sheet providing the player is eligible so arguing about if you'd start a game is neither here nor there since there is an obvious solution
spuddy1878
RefChat Addict
Isnt it a slightly similar situation with regards to a player being given a YC and hes not in the team sheet.
if you ask name and he says Donald Trump so you write Donald Trump
if you ask name and he says Donald Trump so you write Donald Trump
If someone's on the pitch that is not on the team sheet and I somehow magically know that? No, I wouldn't start. But practically speaking, I can't think how I would know that, so it's a bit of a moot point.
And again, I disagree as I believe there is a distinction here.
You have no concerns regarding if a player who's name is on the team sheet is eligible to play. But technically (although again, I don't know how you would know that), according to most competition rules the 11 players on the sheet should be the 11 to start, and I think you're asking for trouble if you knowingly ignore the fact that someone is playing who's not named as such.
Again (and on the other side of the argument!), I think this is down to competiton rules though rather than the LOTG.
For example, one league I referee in is very specific that team sheets should be delivered to the referee in his dressing room 30 minutes before kick off. Now if a manager comes up to me before we walk out and tells me that a player has pulled up in the warm up and they're swapping a starter for a sub, we can be sensible and change it. But if they try to sneak something by me, or even if I notice a change and am suspicious about the reasons behind it (for example, if I think they might be trying to sneak the use of an ineligable player past me and the opponents by naming an eligible player and actually playing someone else), I feel like you should at least query it.
I'm sure League Rules and referee's duties get increasing onerous with every rung of the ladder, but these things are no concern of mine until I emerge from the pyramid's tomb
I'm not familiar with that expression.
League rules are fairly straightforward all the way up the pyramid really: If 11 players are named to start, those 11 players are supposed to start. Now I'm not for a second suggesting you go around taking everyone's name before kick off, or even bother checking shirt numbers. But in the hypothetical world where I've somehow known from a glance that a player isn't one of the starting named 11 (and note, this has nothing to do with their eligibility to be named on that sheet), then I think it is technically in the remit of the ref to go "hang on, I don't think he's named to start" and at least work out what's happened. And that's the case down to the lowest league where team sheets are used.
I rarely had team sheets and I remember a situation in a game I had, Gobby No 9 striker gets cautioned in first half and gave me Name A, in the second half amongst a few other cards to others he was at it again and I asked him his name again before visually realising that i'd already booked him in the first half (by shirt number) and dismissed him. I had wrote both names he gave me down but they were different..... Confused at the end thinking I'd messed up I asked the manager what No9's name was, he gave me a third name, then stumbled and said, 'i'm not sure".... I spotted the ruse and asked him the truth, as i'd be reporting the facts of what had happened, he then told me that the Player A name has CANCER and didnt play any more, and player was Player B as he'd said the second time!!!! Confused when I got home I looked on FB and there he was, said striker with Name A with the same kid who was on the side of the pitch... He'd inadvertadly given me the wrong Name A (as he was banned), then a different Name B when I booked him second time.
I called the ref sec who said Player A was banned from all football, Player B was a player but not that one and manager was a Lying c***t trying to hide the fact he'd played a ringer!!! God knows what the County FA did, not my problem!!!
I called the ref sec who said Player A was banned from all football, Player B was a player but not that one and manager was a Lying c***t trying to hide the fact he'd played a ringer!!! God knows what the County FA did, not my problem!!!
I had a concern a suspended player participated in a game last season. I informed my ref sec who wasn't remotely interested
With roll on/off subs and no assistants, it's a bit of a farce. At least we have team sheets so I can check spellings of players names, improving the cautioning experience for player and referee alike...
With roll on/off subs and no assistants, it's a bit of a farce. At least we have team sheets so I can check spellings of players names, improving the cautioning experience for player and referee alike...
My understanding is that is something referees are to keep their noses out of. Any transfer or suspension issues will be caught by the league/FA and dealt with by them. In all the times I've seen it raised at society meetings, the advice has been move along and pay no heed, it's not our business to know.
Having said that... Back on the topic of 'eligible' players. I do advise where there aren't roll on/off subs to make sure you have the subs names, because teams do sometimes pull a fast one when players turn up late or whatever. And whatever you do, absolutely do not permit them access to the team-sheet during or post-match for anything other than to verify who is on there, as them modifying anything is grounds for you getting into trouble.
We've got enough on our plate, as it is. From my experience, player eligibility is down to the teams and the league. In my opinion play the game and let them sort it out. If they found to have played a ringer, they can lose the game / points / cup tie etc. Of course, keep a record of the subs names and keep a record of any players cautioned. The league may want you to report your findings.
CapnBloodbeard
RefChat Addict
I think this is a false equivalence.. Eligibility to be on the team sheet is beyond the referees concern. But enforcing rules around player names on the sheet are certainly in the referees domain.
Exactly. Team sheets get submitted to the league/county, so if someone ineligible is on the sheet the league/county should catch it. If managers put an eligible player's name on the sheet and then send a different ineligible player onto the pitch in his place, that's much harder for county to catch - so while I don't think referees should be expected to catch it, I do think we're obliged not to turn a blind eye if we sense something is wrong. That can be if the suspect player gets booked and doesn't seem to know his own name, or it can be if you somehow recognise or remember the player from a previous encounter.
Is it even down to the ref to report or is it a club matter? I've had it in the past where team A has said to me before a game 'Team B has a player which isn't signed on'. My response is always 'take pictures of them playing and let the league know after. It's not down to me who can and can't play as I don't know who anyone is'.
End of last season (my first as a referee), big game in this particular division, the loser of which would almost certainly be relegated.
Home manager comes upto me 2 mins before kick off and says that he recognises 3 opposition players that aren't signed on (shows me on full time to prove it) and he doesn't think they should be allowed to play. I approached the away manager for clarification and he said that they were in dispute with the League Secretary regarding this and offered to show me emails proving this. I just said that we will play the gan3 as this is beyond my jurisdiction and I'll report this to the league, which I did.
The away team won a tight game,in which one of the disputed players scored 2 goals so you can imagine the comments after the game. To my knowledge the away manager was telling the truth and their eligibility was proven.
The away team assistant manager disagreed with my decision not to award a penalty in the 2nd half, to the extent that he was asked to leave (I learnt some new words that day!).
My point being that player eligibility issues and my jurisdiction wasn't clear to me (never encountered such a problem) so I went with what I thought was sensible (and I think I was correct). If it happened again I would do exactly the same, play the game and report the names of the players concerned afterwards to the league. Would be interesting to know if anyone would do anything differently as despite it seemingly being the sensible course of action, the incident still remains in your mind throughout the evening
Home manager comes upto me 2 mins before kick off and says that he recognises 3 opposition players that aren't signed on (shows me on full time to prove it) and he doesn't think they should be allowed to play. I approached the away manager for clarification and he said that they were in dispute with the League Secretary regarding this and offered to show me emails proving this. I just said that we will play the gan3 as this is beyond my jurisdiction and I'll report this to the league, which I did.
The away team won a tight game,in which one of the disputed players scored 2 goals so you can imagine the comments after the game. To my knowledge the away manager was telling the truth and their eligibility was proven.
The away team assistant manager disagreed with my decision not to award a penalty in the 2nd half, to the extent that he was asked to leave (I learnt some new words that day!).
My point being that player eligibility issues and my jurisdiction wasn't clear to me (never encountered such a problem) so I went with what I thought was sensible (and I think I was correct). If it happened again I would do exactly the same, play the game and report the names of the players concerned afterwards to the league. Would be interesting to know if anyone would do anything differently as despite it seemingly being the sensible course of action, the incident still remains in your mind throughout the evening