The Ref Stop

Player not on teamsheet

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Home team asks for substitution. You allow this in the next stoppage. A minute later home team scores with the new player not involved in the lead up or scoring of the goal although he had a touch earlier.
Before kick off, away team manager tells you the new player is not on the teamsheet. The home manager admits this and takes the player off. You check the teamsheet and he is not in there. What now?
 
The Ref Stop
You should have the name of the subs before KO, as per the laws. If when asked for the sub, he/ she is not on the list they don't enter the field
 
Is the clue in the fact you mentioned, before ko?
So, we could disallow the goal, as we know we can change our decision before play restarts.
Pull play back to drop ball or idfk to opponents at place non listed guy interfered/touched the ball?
 
If it was mentioned before KO, surely you don't allow him to come on?
 
While this makes a good quiz question it was an actual incident in a colleague's U14 grassroots game on Saturday. I have my own thoughts on correct decision but want to know what everyone else thinks.

In relation to @dbo5ton point. Our association schedules 5, sometimes 6 games in the space of 8 hours (9am to 5pm). Some games are literally scheduled back to back. Referees are not expected to nor physically able to check every player ID against the teamsheet. The best we can do is to ensure the total is correct, that is 16 on the teamsheet and 16 on the field and bench.

QuaverRef said:
If it was mentioned before KO, surely you don't allow him to come on?
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dbo5ton said:
I think he means the kick off to restart after the goal
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methinks hethinks right.
 
dbo5ton said:
I think he means the kick off to restart after the goal
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Ah, my bad... In that case, I'd play on and leave it between the team(s) and the FA. Won't be a popular decision with the team who just conceded but in a way, it's the same as a player giving you a fake name when sending them off. Sometimes you know they are doing it, but you're not there to ID people
 
Does this make the extra person an outside agent? Therefore goal is allowed as he did not interfere with play OR if you consider he did a dropped ball where he touched it?

In any event he needs to be removed and a report submitted.
 
I'd say the referee has no interest in player eligibility. There might be five named substitutes, but it's not our business to verify that they are who they say they are. If a team fields an ineligible player or fields a player who was not named as a sub, the goal stands and it becomes a league matter. Good grounds for overturning a result i'd say
 
Big Cat said:
I'd say the referee has no interest in player eligibility. There might be five named substitutes, but it's not our business to verify that they are who they say they are. If a team fields an ineligible player or fields a player who was not named as a sub, the goal stands and it becomes a league matter. Good grounds for overturning a result i'd say
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This is true, but also a slight side point to the question being asked. As far as the ref is concerned, a team can name anyone they like as their named subs. If it's later found out that they are ineligible, that's the club's fault and not the ref. And as you say, best case scenario for the offending club would be the match being replayed.

But it is the ref's job to ensure that only those players named can come onto the pitch. Best case here would have been if the ref had stopped the sub happening - which he's absolutely empowered to do. And by failing to do so, he does at least take a portion of the blame in the situation described.
 
GraemeS said:
This is true, but also a slight side point to the question being asked. As far as the ref is concerned, a team can name anyone they like as their named subs. If it's later found out that they are ineligible, that's the club's fault and not the ref. And as you say, best case scenario for the offending club would be the match being replayed.

But it is the ref's job to ensure that only those players named can come onto the pitch. Best case here would have been if the ref had stopped the sub happening - which he's absolutely empowered to do. And by failing to do so, he does at least take a portion of the blame in the situation described.
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I had a quick look in the book and couldn't find a section which specifically mentions this subject
 
Big Cat said:
I had a quick look in the book and couldn't find a section which specifically mentions this subject
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Law 3 covers this particular subject

It says, amongst other things:

The names of the substitutes must be given to the referee before the start
of the match. Any substitute not named by this time may not take part in the
match.

And

All substituted players and substitutes are subject to the referee’s authority
whether they play or not.
 
Also law 3:
"If the competition rules state that all players and substitutes must be named before kick-off and a team starts a match with fewer than eleven players, only the players and substitutes named on the team list may take part in the match upon their arrival." Pg 47

"A player who is sent off: before submission of the team list can not be named on the team list in any capacity" Pg 50 (implying requirement for submission of a team list before the game)

"Anyone not named on the team list as a player, substitute or team official is an outside agent." Page 50
 
Big Cat said:
I'd say the referee has no interest in player eligibility. There might be five named substitutes, but it's not our business to verify that they are who they say they are. If a team fields an ineligible player or fields a player who was not named as a sub, the goal stands and it becomes a league matter. Good grounds for overturning a result i'd say
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I agree, referee is not responsible for player eligibility and thank goodness for that I say.

To complicate matters, there is a subtle difference between ineligible and misidentity as seen in a complicated case in my local amateur league just now. A player was found to have played in a match where he was not named on the team sheet. However, he was perfectly eligible to play in the match as he was properly signed and not suspended - the coach hadn't properly updated the team lines from the previous week. Inevitably his team won and the losing team made a protest expecting to be awarded the points or at least have the match replayed. The offending team are arguing that this is technically only an 'error in team lines' which, in the finer points of the league rules, carries a lesser sanction. All in all it's become a complete mess. As I say, thank goodness it's not a refereeing issue!
 
Big Cat said:
I'd say the referee has no interest in player eligibility. There might be five named substitutes, but it's not our business to verify that they are who they say they are. If a team fields an ineligible player or fields a player who was not named as a sub, the goal stands and it becomes a league matter. Good grounds for overturning a result i'd say
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Am going to paint one of my ridiculous situations, but as ever its only to try take a different look at it
Your about to kick off and the other team notices Ronaldo is in the other team
Now, you are very much aware Ronaldo is not on the team sheet
Given you are 100% aware he is not, do you simply start the game anyway?
For me this is kinda the same, the big diff being whether you are aware of the illegal player or not.

I am lax in my games by my own admission. I do not always record or tick off a name of sub, it might indeed come back to bite me and its bad practise.
Am very much of the mind that if 14 is not who 14 is meant to be, thats the teams error, but it would also be mine if the names did not match team sheet.
I think though when attention and admission is made that somebody is playing who should not be, then the ref does have a role to play
 
Ciley Myrus said:
Am going to paint one of my ridiculous situations, but as ever its only to try take a different look at it
Your about to kick off and the other team notices Ronaldo is in the other team
Now, you are very much aware Ronaldo is not on the team sheet
Given you are 100% aware he is not, do you simply start the game anyway?
For me this is kinda the same, the big diff being whether you are aware of the illegal player or not.

I am lax in my games by my own admission. I do not always record or tick off a name of sub, it might indeed come back to bite me and its bad practise.
Am very much of the mind that if 14 is not who 14 is meant to be, thats the teams error, but it would also be mine if the names did not match team sheet.
I think though when attention and admission is made that somebody is playing who should not be, then the ref does have a role to play
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I'd start the game with Ronaldo on the pitch and then promptly send him off for being a complete and utter *%$£* :)
At Tier 17ish of the National Pyramid, we also have to worry about roll-on/roll-off subs
I hadn't previously thought about accounting for substitutes, so the OP has done me a flavour
 
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