Persistent infringement or Foul tackle

[Townie]

First yellow in a youth game today.

Firstly, defending player marking attacking player at a throw in, ball comes into play going nowhere near the pair and defending player kicks attacking player deliberately. I think he thought I wouldn't see it as the ball was going a completely different direction. I know this could be enough for violent conduct because it just wasn't a challenge, shoud have definitely been a yellow at least by law but being an U14 game with it being the second half and nothing but a few loud parents so far I give a stern and visible talking to and let him know I don't want to have to talk to him again that game.

Later in the game a late slide tackle, clear foul, and it's him again. one of those where if it were his first offence at this level I'd give the same chat, but I already have and I can't be seen to have empty threats.

So i get the yellow out, my first at youth football. No complaints from anyone at the time or after, and I see him pulling out of 50:50 tackles later in the game, so I'm happy with how i've managed this. (Advice welcome on my process)

But now I come to reporting the yellow. Is it persistent infringement based on how I described it, or foul tackle. Is there any consequence for the club or player based on what code I assign? Thanks.

 

[george.g]

No difference in consequences as far as I'm aware. They will receive the same fine (administration fee) and penalty points, and will accumulate the same to a suspension.

For me I'd probably put that down as Foul Tackle/Reckless Play. However if you didn't think it was reckless, and you cautioned him on the basis it was a repeat offence, report it for persistent. In reality this makes little difference!

 

[Viridis1886]

No difference to the club. So you could take your pick.

However.... based on what you said above, if you hadn't given them a talking to before, you probably would have given them a talking to for this challenge. Because of that, it sounds like in your head it was PI.

"You've had your warning player, no more. Yellow card."

 

[Viridis1886]

It's worth noting that for PI it doesn't need to be a repeat of the same offence.

 

[Townie]

No difference in consequences as far as I'm aware. They will receive the same fine (administration fee) and penalty points, and will accumulate the same to a suspension.

For me I'd probably put that down as Foul Tackle/Reckless Play. However if you didn't think it was reckless, and you cautioned him on the basis it was a repeat offence, report it for persistent. In reality this makes little difference!

thank you!

 

[Townie]

No difference to the club. So you could take your pick.

However.... based on what you said above, if you hadn't given them a talking to before, you probably would have given them a talking to for this challenge. Because of that, it sounds like in your head it was PI.

"You've had your warning player, no more. Yellow card."

thank you !

 

[socal lurker]

Firstly, defending player marking attacking player at a throw in, ball comes into play going nowhere near the pair and defending player kicks attacking player deliberately.

my two cents: U14 is old enough that this needs to be at least a caution. This is calculated misconduct At an age where players are starting to see what they can get away with.

as far as reckless vs PI, I think you could go with either

 

[lincs22]

First yellow in a youth game today.

Firstly, defending player marking attacking player at a throw in, ball comes into play going nowhere near the pair and defending player kicks attacking player deliberately. I think he thought I wouldn't see it as the ball was going a completely different direction. I know this could be enough for violent conduct because it just wasn't a challenge, shoud have definitely been a yellow at least by law but being an U14 game with it being the second half and nothing but a few loud parents so far I give a stern and visible talking to and let him know I don't want to have to talk to him again that game.

Later in the game a late slide tackle, clear foul, and it's him again. one of those where if it were his first offence at this level I'd give the same chat, but I already have and I can't be seen to have empty threats.

So i get the yellow out, my first at youth football. No complaints from anyone at the time or after, and I see him pulling out of 50:50 tackles later in the game, so I'm happy with how i've managed this. (Advice welcome on my process)

But now I come to reporting the yellow. Is it persistent infringement based on how I described it, or foul tackle. Is there any consequence for the club or player based on what code I assign? Thanks.

Since you clearly spoke to him - PI. Safest option and therefore if you referee them again, there is "well you cautioned me last time for such a challenge!" moans...

 

[Gabriel]

defending player kicks attacking player deliberately

At U14's this would still be red for me. I have only done 6 games, all at youth with only 1 U12 (rest U7, U8, U9) so I am not that experienced as still finding confidence and learning, naturally. This being said though, at U14's they know what is a card and what isn't so would be being used frequently by me. If they don't know by this age, they need to learn. I have only dished 1 card (yellow), which came in the U12 game. Could have easily justified at least 3 or 4 in that match.

 

[Gabriel]

so would be being used frequently by me.

This being said:
what age would others think is appropriate for using cards without hesitation due to age. For me, I'd say U13's up, but at U12's have to come out occasionally. Same for others or different?

 

[DJIC]

At U14's this would still be red for me. I have only done 6 games, all at youth with only 1 U12 (rest U7, U8, U9) so I am not that experienced as still finding confidence and learning, naturally. This being said though, at U14's they know what is a card and what isn't so would be being used frequently by me. If they don't know by this age, they need to learn. I have only dished 1 card (yellow), which came in the U12 game. Could have easily justified at least 3 or 4 in that match.

For VC you do need some force in the kick out, without seeing the incident it sounds more like a petulant kick, hence you considering a yellow card.

I also consider the temperature of the game, was it a an isolated incident or do the two team have a real dislike for each other? Also consider will not administering YC/RC harm your match control?

 

[El__Juez__]

This being said:
what age would others think is appropriate for using cards without hesitation due to age. For me, I'd say U13's up, but at U12's have to come out occasionally. Same for others or different?

with hesitation - development football (mini-soccer)

without hesitation - post development football. So u12 +.

 

[socal lurker]

This being said:
what age would others think is appropriate for using cards without hesitation due to age. For me, I'd say U13's up, but at U12's have to come out occasionally. Same for others or different?

I would say it’s more of a sliding scale, but a lot depends on expectations.

in the US, AYSO is the largest youth soccer organization, though primarily rec level. AYSO discourages the physical showing of cards to younger players , especially 10U and below on the theory the public admonishment is not age appropriate. In the rare cases a player does something caution worthy at that age, the practice is to inform the player and inform the coach—so in essence the card is given but not shown. (I think I’ve had this actually happen once in a 10U game.) But that only really makes sense if that is the expectation where you are. In my view, by 12U, a card earned is a card given—but we have to be aware of the age difference in deciding, for example, what reckless really is.

 

[george.g]

what age would others think is appropriate for using cards without hesitation due to age. For me, I'd say U13's up, but at U12's have to come out occasionally. Same for others or different?

Generally I think U15 is where it is undoubtedly a safe bet, and U13-U14 is justifiable.

U12 and below I think there's room for development and coaching points, coupled with a less frequent need for cards.

My youngest card ever was U13, and that was as part of a Mass Con inc. Violent Conduct...

 

[OldNavyRef]

See I wouldn't hesitate in U15 as they all know what they are doing.

So I think what you said above is exactly how U14s should be handled. A lot of warnings and tips, really reading into their intentions.

As you said, once you issued the yellow their play style changed. I noticed that a lot with the academy teams.

They play in a certain way until they catch a yellow. Then their role changes.

I often when giving cards explain it is part of the game. As sometimes cards are something players can use to their advantage. SPA for example.

 

[DazN]

Once they go to 11v11 (U13s) it's basically OA football in every other aspect other than duration so for me that includes cautions. The only difference is I am more likely to give them a warning where possible which usually does the trick (usually!)

 

[ChrisBLD]

See I wouldn't hesitate in U15 as they all know what they are doing.

So I think what you said above is exactly how U14s should be handled. A lot of warnings and tips, really reading into their intentions.

As you said, once you issued the yellow their play style changed. I noticed that a lot with the academy teams.

They play in a certain way until they catch a yellow. Then their role changes.

I often when giving cards explain it is part of the game. As sometimes cards are something players can use to their advantage. SPA for example.

Could you expand on what you mean by explaining that cards are part of the game? One thing I find difficult to get resources on are effective communication methods with players to maintain that mutual respect but also enforce the rules.

 

[Runner-Ref]

Could you expand on what you mean by explaining that cards are part of the game? One thing I find difficult to get resources on are effective communication methods with players to maintain that mutual respect but also enforce the rules.

By this you don't know what to say to players during a b*blocking etc?

 

[OldNavyRef]

Could you expand on what you mean by explaining that cards are part of the game? One thing I find difficult to get resources on are effective communication methods with players to maintain that mutual respect but also enforce the rules.

For me it massively depends on how players are carrying themselves (attitude etc). The type of game. How the game is going. Also any other core skills you bring to the table.

If I am doing U14s or younger, and giving a card (or even just a free kick), and a player is taking it hard. Not aggressive, just they look like they are about to be in tears, I will invite them to meet me in a neutral space (as in I'll say "7 come over here", and I'll point and walk somewhere roughly halfway between us (just so it doesn't come off I'm demanding he/she comes to me).

Then I'll just have a quiet chat, usually with some encouragement. E.g. If it was for persistent fouling, I'll let them know, they have a clean slate again, and possibly mentioned his tackle stopped the striker getting a risky cross into the box or something else. Just to raise their head.

Nothing over the top, whole thing should take 10 seconds. But ensure it is a learning experience and not a punishment.

 

[BCMilan]

First yellow in a youth game today.

Firstly, defending player marking attacking player at a throw in, ball comes into play going nowhere near the pair and defending player kicks attacking player deliberately. I think he thought I wouldn't see it as the ball was going a completely different direction. I know this could be enough for violent conduct because it just wasn't a challenge, shoud have definitely been a yellow at least by law but being an U14 game with it being the second half and nothing but a few loud parents so far I give a stern and visible talking to and let him know I don't want to have to talk to him again that game.

Later in the game a late slide tackle, clear foul, and it's him again. one of those where if it were his first offence at this level I'd give the same chat, but I already have and I can't be seen to have empty threats.

So i get the yellow out, my first at youth football. No complaints from anyone at the time or after, and I see him pulling out of 50:50 tackles later in the game, so I'm happy with how i've managed this. (Advice welcome on my process)

But now I come to reporting the yellow. Is it persistent infringement based on how I described it, or foul tackle. Is there any consequence for the club or player based on what code I assign? Thanks.

Nice write up ! I think I would have gone for a reckless foul tackle. You've already warned him and he's done it again. I tend to look for 3-4 lesser infringements when booking for persistent offending (and point to the areas where they were, so that the player is aware). Sounds to me like you did a top job overall. Keep it going buddy, and don't hesitate to drop us a line on here if you have any other queries. There's a wealth of knowledge and experience on here