A&H

NED V ENG Euro SF

It's a foul if you're an attacker and it's never a foul if you're a defender. No point in the endless debate because it's a subjective question of perspective.

Christina said no Pen. End of

Anyway, England have a lot of credit in the 'bank of luck', so don't complain when making a withdrawal on those savings
England were the better side and deserved to go through. They're hard to beat (they've come from behind in all 3 knockout games! That takes some doing), don't concede many and are gaining momentum. Conversely, Spain are a young side and I thought they looked nervy during the 2nd half on Tuesday. I would make us slight favourites even though the Bookies have it the other way round
 
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Big Cat said:
It's a foul if you're an attacker and it's never a foul if you're a defender. No point in the endless debate because it's a subjective question of perspective
Christina said no Pen. End of
Anyway, England have a lot of credit in the 'bank of luck', so don't complain when making a withdrawal on those savings
England were the better side and deserved to go through. They're hard to beat and are gaining momentum. Conversely, Spain are a young side and I thought they looked nervy during the 2nd half on Tuesday. I would make us slight favourites even though the Bookies have it the other way round
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Last night was probably the first team we have played that will have focussed less on how to stop us and more on their own game and that allowed us to show how good a team we actually are.
That changed in the second half, as Netherlands clearly sussed out the way to stop us playing is to defend us and all our impetus and momentum was lost and we were back to what we have seen before this game. We really don't perform well against teams that defend us with a low block.
Spain will play their own game, and that will play into our hands... But Spain have been far and away the best team in this tournament, and a run to the final of Georgia, Germany, France demonstrates just how good they are. I expect a Spain win but won't be surprised if we perform well and win either.
I have it as just about evens with maybe a decimal either way in spains favour.

Sorry strayed well off refereeing here. 😬
 
wazztie16 said:
That's not how it works though. It's the way/manner that you make contact with a player. Not the fact that you just make contact. Plenty of contact is 'normal football contact'.

But last night's foul wasn't.
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Yes it is the way it works. I would get destroyed if i'm giving that in the physical grass roots football I ref. I am not giving fouls and penalties for that. Nothing reckless, no malice, honest attempt to get the ball, he got his shot off, in the box you expect to see what is called in coaching critical defending, players the coaches the game expect genuine attempts to defend there, and this is what that was ... Thats what people want not this fast becoming non contact sport we are seeing on TV.
 
Pembroke said:
Yes it is the way it works. I would get destroyed if i'm giving that in the physical grass roots football I ref. I am not giving fouls and penalties for that. Nothing reckless, no malice, honest attempt to get the ball, he got his shot off, in the box you expect to see what is called in coaching critical defending, players the coaches the game expect genuine attempts to defend there, and this is what that was ... Thats what people want not this fast becoming non contact sport we are seeing on TV.
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Move with the times, or they'll move on without you.
 
Not a pen for me. And who kicked who by the way?

Why is bloody VAR getting involved anyway?

Love to hear someone give that penalty at grassroots and then try explain why.

'Well his foot was up trying to block the shot.'

'But he kicked him on the follow through.'

'Yeah, nah, we're going with a pen because.....reasons.'

LOL.
 
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So, I  was very much on the not a penalty side of the fence, but on reflection, it is not wrong to be given as a penalty. As has been pointed out, anywhere else on the pitch, it's a foul. But, the VAR intervention doesn't sit right with me, but then again VAR never really does.

It does feel like a 'soft' penalty though, and if I was a Netherlands fan I'd be livid.
 
Murri O said:
Not a pen for me. And who kicked who by the way?

Why is bloody VAR getting involved anyway?

Love to hear someone give that penalty at grassroots and then try explain why.

'Well his foot was up trying to block the shot.'

'But he kicked him on the follow through.'

'Yeah, nah, we're going with a pen because.....reasons.'

LOL.
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Kane plays the ball, Dumfries plays Kane. Watch the gif I posted, and watch how Dumfries is going in. It's not a block, it's a reckless tackle.
 
Murri O said:
Not a pen. And who kicked who by the way?
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Kane kicked the ball. The momentum and instigator of contact was the Dutch player who moved into Kane's position on the FOP not the other way.
Murri O said:
Why is bloody VAR getting involved anyway?
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Because UEFA sees these challenges as reckless. I'm almost certain UEFA backs the intervention here.
Murri O said:
Love to hear someone give that penalty at grassroots and then try explain why.

'Well his foot was up trying to block the shot.'

'But he kicked him on the follow through.'

'Yeah, nah, we're going with a pen because.....reasons.'
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As @ARF points out this isn't a blocking action, it's a challenge for the ball.
It's late. It's high. Its contact of studs on top of opponents boot and is, imo, a very clear case of disregard to the danger or consequence for the opponent.

As @one points out, if there is anything worse then "I got the ball ref" its "I was trying to...".

I'd like to see anyone be on the recieving end of this contact and say they don't want a free kick because of it.

If Dumfries was clearing the ball and Kane came through to block in the same way we all agree free kick? So then how do we not agree penalty?
 
It's certainly every bit as much, if not more of a penalty than the 'foul' by Doku on Alexis MacAllister earlier this season... 🎣🎣🎣
 
I'm happy with calling it a foul after watching it more times than I can count, but I'm still not convinced about it being reckless. Was the player showing a lack of attenion or consideration? Yes, so I'm happy with a careless foul. Was he acting with disregard to the danger of Kane? I'm not convinced. But this is just one of those decisions where there are arguments for everything from no foul to foul + caution because it is, by nature, subjective.
 
JamesL said:
Last night was probably the first team we have played that will have focussed less on how to stop us and more on their own game and that allowed us to show how good a team we actually are.
That changed in the second half, as Netherlands clearly sussed out the way to stop us playing is to defend us and all our impetus and momentum was lost and we were back to what we have seen before this game. We really don't perform well against teams that defend us with a low block.
Spain will play their own game, and that will play into our hands... But Spain have been far and away the best team in this tournament, and a run to the final of Georgia, Germany, France demonstrates just how good they are. I expect a Spain win but won't be surprised if we perform well and win either.
I have it as just about evens with maybe a decimal either way in spains favour.

Sorry strayed well off refereeing here. 😬
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NED made a very effective tactical change at HT that stifled the game for both sides
Perhaps if Southgate had gambled with subs and width we may have effectively counterplayed NED's HT move
As it was however, the dogmatic and risk averse approach worked because Watkins was the Joker in the Pack that won the game

We only get judged on outcome. If Bellingham hadn't have scored against Slovakia in the dying seconds, Southgate would've been ruined. As it stands, he may get immortalised because folk will applaud the stability of the team and 'boring' approach if history repeats the outcome of The Spanish Armada
 
ARF said:
Kane plays the ball, Dumfries plays Kane. Watch the gif I posted, and watch how Dumfries is going in. It's not a block, it's a reckless tackle.
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In the GIF it looks like he's pulling out rather than with studs facing, trying to hurt Kane !
 
Big Cat said:
NED made a very effective tactical change at HT that stifled the game for both sides
Perhaps if Southgate had gambled with subs and width we may have effectively counterplayed NED's HT move
As it was however, the dogmatic and risk averse approach worked because Watkins was the Joker in the Pack that won the game

We only get judged on outcome. If Bellingham hadn't have scored against Slovakia in the dying seconds, Southgate would've been ruined. As it stands, he may get immortalised because folk will applaud the stability of the team and 'boring' approach if history repeats the outcome of The Spanish Armada
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It was an absolute joke how the pundits were praising Southgate last night, yet ripping into him 2 games ago. Talk about fickle !
 
Viridis1886 said:
Seriously. Lee Dixon is just the worst, closely followed by Danny and Murphy.
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He topped it off later on with an absolute classic.

SPA challenge on half way line. Ref signalled advantage and Ned broke down the right, crossed the ball, attempt went a bit wonky then.

"He lucky he's not getting a caution there for stopping a promising attack".
 
Certainly agree it looks more like a penalty on that angle. I'm still sticking with it shouldn't have resulted in a VAR recommended review though, it is far too subjective and not what VAR was brought in to fix. The fact it was reckless is neither here nor there, as VAR cannot check for missed cautions, that would only come into play if they felt it was SFP. This just ticks the re-refereeing the game box for me.
 
One thing for sure. If it hits the back of the net VAR ain't going back for the PK. Two bites of the cherry blah blah blah
90% of non-Referees have derided the decision, regardless of Nationality. High profile unwanted VAR interference is what it was
Christina didn't sleep a wink
 
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