match off but pitch fine

[Runner-Ref]

A ref is an official. Leagues are fine with officials sharing concerns over fixtures not being played. Clubs entering leagues have made a commitment to x of games in x period of time, and leagues do not like games to be called off for spurious reasons like FA Cup games being played on a Sunday and the U15's can get eleven out = Pitch is in unplayable. The result for a the league should be walkover, HW or AW.

Correct, a ref is an official. A match official. Our job is to referee a scheduled football match and perform a pitch inspection if required.

If a game is called off ahead of time, it is none of our business. As had been explained by multiple people in this thread. If you want to be a busy body and start looking into it, feel free. But you would not be eligible for a match fee, as was discussed earlier on.

If referees are really that concerned with why games are called off, maybe look to join a league committee. Or report your suspicions to the league and get on with your day.

 

[RefereeX]

I'm late to the party here, but don't want to miss the opportunity to put my 2 pence in!

The correct course of action in this situation, if you really think the club are pulling a fast one and it doesn't sit well with you, is to contact the league chairman / secretary and say 'such and such team has just told me the game tomorrow at such and such park is off because the pitch is unplayable. I find that hard to believe, as I refereed on the same pitch this morning and it was absolutely fine. It might be worth you looking in to that.'

That is your involvement done. No match fee, no inspection.

You mentioned in a previous post that you could have refereed a different match so you've lost out... But this is a poor argument because either you still could have got a different match if there were any available after the postponement or alternatively there were no other matches available so either way someone would miss out.

 

[sunnycrofter]

SCoR-Y (SCoR is the same)

Out of interest, what does this acronym stand for?

Thank you

 

[RustyRef]

Out of interest, what does this acronym stand for?

Thank you

Standard Code of Rules and Standard Code of Rules Youth. They are rule sets that all affiliated leagues in England have to use, there are bits in there that are in square brackets that let the league choose certain things such as how many substitutes, and there it bits in italic that are optional. But the premise is that every league in England has rules that are numbered the same and are at least vaguely comparable.

Which is why I know that, no matter what league is involved, there is absolutely no basis for being paid a match fee for a game that is called off the day before.

 

[QuaverRef]

If you get paid the match fee, can you let me know which league this is so I can start to drive round their empty pitches when they have cancellations? I could do with some extra cash

 

[Kent Ref]

I have been notified that the points have been awarded to the opposition.

The league thanked me for my submission.

This team have tried this trick 3 times this season (two i know of) and the fact that the club declined an alternative pitch made the league's decision easier.

The league are sending me a cheque for the match fee. They feel the game should have gone ahead - on either of the two pitches fit for play.

You might not agree with my actions but i knew something was wrong.

Maybe this team will think harder next time.

 

[RustyRef]

The league are setting a very dangerous precedent then, hope other referees submit their claim for a match fee when they go to inspect a pitch for a game that has already been called off. After all, they have set that precedent now, any referee aggrieved that their game is off is surely entitled to go and have a look at the pitch and claim a fee?

Sounds like they've also jumped the gun, they can't just "award the points", they have to formally charge the defaulting club in writing, and the club then get 7 days to respond with one of the following ...

(i) Accept or deny the charge
(ii) Submit in writing a case of mitigation, or
(iii) Put their case before the Management Committee

Even if they accept the charge they then get 14 days from the notification of any sanction to appeal it to their County FA, and no league should be telling anyone other than the club involved what the outcome is until that appeal period is up. And be absolutely clear, if the club did appeal to county this judgement would be trampled all over as they haven't followed process, even more so if they try and claim the referee fee back from the club.

But it is all OK as you have your match fee.

 

[RefGod]

This was always about the fee.

 

[Southerner In The North]

Certain people on here have turned this thread into targeted attacks if anything he’s gone above and beyond surely we should praise that very disappointed in some of these comments.

 

[george.g]

Certain people on here have turned this thread into targeted attacks if anything he’s gone above and beyond surely we should praise that very disappointed in some of these comments.

But it’s what’s this implies about clubs, and their authority over inspections.

Let’s say a local referee cancels a game at 8AM for later that day, nobody had woken up yet let alone travelled. Yet the club disagree, send photos, and the league instantly impose some level of sanction on the referee.

That would have been as a result of the club acting beyond their authority, the league acting outside of their regulations, and would leave a door open for a very easy appeal.

In this instance it sounds like the club may have deliberately skipped the fixture, owed up and taken the 3 point hit. However, paying a referee for a game not going ahead is unheard of. That is just passive income

 

[OnlyUseMeWhistle]

Glad you got your fee for you, I’m sure that money feels great. Sounds like the league, not the club, is paying you. I hope the league can afford it comfortably because many round here cannot and would be charging all clubs more to cover costs like that.

In future it’d probably be easier to open an app like YesRef (no sponsorship or personal interest) because they usually have a few last minute games. Or check other leagues for uncovered games!

 

[Runner-Ref]

Certain people on here have turned this thread into targeted attacks if anything he’s gone above and beyond surely we should praise that very disappointed in some of these comments.

He hasn't gone above and beyond, he has simply gone beyond.

If you are told the game is called off ahead of time, then it is off. If you have your suspicions, share them with the league by all means. But to then request a fee is just laughable. As has been said earlier in the thread, it would not be accepted if correct procedure was followed.

Clubs & leagues are struggling to function as it is. So for a referee to demand a fee for a game that never took place is not only damaging to the leagues & clubs, but also referees.

 

[RustyRef]

Certain people on here have turned this thread into targeted attacks if anything he’s gone above and beyond surely we should praise that very disappointed in some of these comments.

Don't think there have been attacks, targeted or otherwise. We have a referee, who based on his posts wants to see things done by the book and likes rules and regulations following, openly admitting he has gone way over and above what a referee should be doing. If you post that you have gone against what are very clearly defined rules and regulations you are going to get some comeback. If you don't want that then don't make the post in the first place.

As I and others have said, the league cannot claim that match fee back from the defaulting club, at least not legally under the rules anyway. Which means that all other clubs in the league will contribute to that match fee. OK, we are talking pounds or even pence per club, but it is the principle that stands. As I said yesterday, the league are now going to have to pay every referee that suspects there is wrongdoing afoot, and carries out a pitch inspection off his or her own back, a match fee.

I often do spot checks on clubs that we suspect of calling off games for their own purposes, and am well known in the league for catching people out. But I'm a member of the league management committee and am doing it under their authority, a referee simply has no right to carry out such a check. Even where we have caught clubs out red handed, and there have ben many occasions, we have never paid the appointed referee their match fee as the rules simply don't allow it. Whereas if the actions of a club result in a game not being played, and where the referee has attended the ground for the scheduled kick time, we always ensure their fee is paid as the rules support this.

 

[BCMilan]

Well I never. I really didn't expect the story to end with Kent Ref being paid.

 

[RefGod]

There are a number of senior referees, many of whom are now at the very top, who have travelled hours to a hotel and been up at 08:00 on match day shovelling snow off a pitch only to then have to call the game off anyway, thereby forfeiting hundreds of pounds in match fees. It is the above behaviour at the lowest level that epitomises the disconnect between clubs/players and referees.

 

[RefereeX]

Random and only slightly related point, but in my first season I turned up to referee a sunday league game to be greeted by the home manager saying 'sh*t, I'm really sorry we forgot to let you know. Our opponents folded last night so the game is off. We decided to run a training session, but I just forgot to let you know. We'll happily pay you but I'll have to do it by bank transfer as I'm not collecting any subs'

My response was that I wasn't sure how much of a fee would need to be paid and that I would speak to the refs secretary to find out and let him know.

The referee's secretary told me 'full fee, because they knew last night and didn't tell you so that's their own fault. If it was just this morning it would be half fee'.

I text the home manager and said 'look, I've been told it's full fee, but I don't necessarily feel that's fair so happy to call it £20 (the fee at the time was £30)'

They then completely ignored all my texts and the league ended up having to order them to pay the full £30.

Not really sure there was a point to that story.... but there you have it.

 

[Southerner In The North]

Don't think there have been attacks, targeted or otherwise. We have a referee, who based on his posts wants to see things done by the book and likes rules and regulations following, openly admitting he has gone way over and above what a referee should be doing. If you post that you have gone against what are very clearly defined rules and regulations you are going to get some comeback. If you don't want that then don't make the post in the first place.

As I and others have said, the league cannot claim that match fee back from the defaulting club, at least not legally under the rules anyway. Which means that all other clubs in the league will contribute to that match fee. OK, we are talking pounds or even pence per club, but it is the principle that stands. As I said yesterday, the league are now going to have to pay every referee that suspects there is wrongdoing afoot, and carries out a pitch inspection off his or her own back, a match fee.

I often do spot checks on clubs that we suspect of calling off games for their own purposes, and am well known in the league for catching people out. But I'm a member of the league management committee and am doing it under their authority, a referee simply has no right to carry out such a check. Even where we have caught clubs out red handed, and there have ben many occasions, we have never paid the appointed referee their match fee as the rules simply don't allow it. Whereas if the actions of a club result in a game not being played, and where the referee has attended the ground for the scheduled kick time, we always ensure their fee is paid as the rules support this.

I feel the attacks certainly read as targeted and as I have had similar before have flagged not a great look to defend it either

 

[Gabriel]

I'll have to do it by bank transfer

My league specifically forbids bank transfers for the reason you mentioned - they never get paid! I've only had a manager suggest it once, because "he didn't have any cash". When he later admitted he had £4, I requested he give me that (he owed me £14 in total, as fee was £28, shared by the teams), and pay the rest by transfer. In all fairness, he did it, but that was probably only because he'd already started paying me. But I don't understand how these people are told every week that they need to pay refs in cash and still don't take it with them.

 

[Runner-Ref]

I feel the attacks certainly read as targeted and as I have had similar before have flagged not a great look to defend it either

There haven't been any attacks. If people disagreeing with someone for asking for payment when they are not owed it is classed as attacking, we might as well give up the debates.

I'm not sure when you feel you have been attacked, but I'd guess it was during the thread when you basically guaranteed us that Premier League rules stated that managers must always give honest answers and are then punished, yet failed to provide solid evidence. That despite promising us that such thing existed on the PL website.

 

[Southerner In The North]

There haven't been any attacks. If people disagreeing with someone for asking for payment when they are not owed it is classed as attacking, we might as well give up the debates.

I'm not sure when you feel you have been attacked, but I'd guess it was during the thread when you basically guaranteed us that Premier League rules stated that managers must always give honest answers and are then punished, yet failed to provide solid evidence. That despite promising us that such thing existed on the PL website.

The post in question I mention was taken down for the exact reason it was a personal attack some of a certian persons comments on here are very similar also I asked a valid question in reply to that request one I am yet to receive a response to so you have made yourself look silly mentioning it.