And does this not indicate the league/sanctioning authority investigated this incident sufficiently, without referee intervention?
And out of genuine interest, not a confrontational perspective, did your mate receive his match fee?
match off but pitch fine
- Thread starter Kent Ref
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And out of genuine interest, not a confrontational perspective, did your mate receive his match fee?
I think you need to tell the difference between a joke and a serious comment. Of course I'm not going to get involved in a league that I have involvement in or even know what it is.
But where I have a problem is your involvement. You regularly come on here and moan about what professional referees should have done in games that you have watched, which is fine even though myself and perhaps others don't agree with you. But you can't then expect to make a post where you openly admit you have gone and done an unauthorised pitch inspection and not expect to be criticised for it. The rules under SCoR for postponed games at grass roots are clear, if the game is called off you have no right whatsoever to go to the ground, and certainly not to then expect a payment. IF the club have lied then it is down to the league to find them out and take action, it isn't your responsibility.
Being deadly serious here, if you are so keen to see that things are done correctly and fairly why don't you offer to join a league committee, most of them are always looking for willing volunteers?
No he received nothing. The league accepted the pitch was unplayable but my mate was suspicious as there was no rain that week at all. He never made the 15 miles to check. I had also reffed there on the Saturday before as i'm there 2/3 times a month on a Saturday (local youth team).
I'm only 2.5 miles away.
garytheref
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Someone pass the popcorn, this is getting interesting
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Runner-Ref
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The bit that I don't understand, is why you think you're owed a match fee. You were told way ahead of kick off that the game was off.
If the club are up to strange activities, that's for the league to sort. Not ourselves as referees.
It's frustrating. Especially this time of year as it's hard to get a consistent run of games going. But that's the downside of grass pitches. As myself & @RefGod said earlier in the thread; clubs/councils need to manage their pitches at this time of the year. It may well have been fine yesterday and even today, but they will know the pitch far better than you do. They may have believed that it would cut up today, thus ruling it out for a number of weeks in future.
Many reasons as to why it may have been called off. And 0 of them are the referees business.
If the club are up to strange activities, that's for the league to sort. Not ourselves as referees.
It's frustrating. Especially this time of year as it's hard to get a consistent run of games going. But that's the downside of grass pitches. As myself & @RefGod said earlier in the thread; clubs/councils need to manage their pitches at this time of the year. It may well have been fine yesterday and even today, but they will know the pitch far better than you do. They may have believed that it would cut up today, thus ruling it out for a number of weeks in future.
Many reasons as to why it may have been called off. And 0 of them are the referees business.
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Precisely. Not sure what others do but in my league, we are only entitled to the fee if the game is postponed AFTER our arrival due to a club being at fault. And even then, it is nearly always only half of the normal fee.
I agree with @Runner-Ref , grounds teams are normally the experts of their pitch. They know when it needs a rest, even if weather conditions look fine, and the pitch looks fine. They may know the water table is high, or the penalty spot churns quickly after rain. Ultimately, we don't question their expertise.
Kent, you've pointed out your friend wasn't paid. If this is the case, why would you be?
Given LOTG: The authority of the referee begins when they enter the Field of Play to do a pitch inspection. Unfortunately, when you did so, there was no game to have authority over, meaning it's very hard to find a case for what you should be paid for
Kent, you've pointed out your friend wasn't paid. If this is the case, why would you be?
Given LOTG: The authority of the referee begins when they enter the Field of Play to do a pitch inspection. Unfortunately, when you did so, there was no game to have authority over, meaning it's very hard to find a case for what you should be paid for
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Runner-Ref
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Correct. If you haven't left your house, you aren't owed anything. If you do travel due to no communication or you get there and call it off, generally you're eligible for half fee.
Half before KO for whatever reason, full in case of abandonment. That appears to be standard.
I'm sure you've read the posts.
But if you didn't here are the factors that make me thing this team are guilty of falsely postponing the game:
The pitch was perfectly playable yesterday and today (i took pictures today).
The home team claimed the parish council called the game off just before 9pm. This has now proved to be a lie (by the home club's own admission).
Unbeknown to me the league have a system where councils local or parish tell them directly if a game is off. In this case it didn't happen as the game was ON.
On the basis of the club's word the home team were offered a VERY nearby pitch but declined it. How strange!
The same thing happened in October but my mate didn't complain. Only after discussing it did he realise i reffed there the day before.
Added to this i could have reffed 2 or 3 other games that i ignored as i had a game already.
I think this explains why i feel i am entitled to be paid.
It doesn't though. Whether called off legitimately or not, you went despite being told there wasn't a game to go to. That is your issue and no-one else's.
But we can’t work on the theory of
opportunity cost, what we lost by selecting another option.
If the team failed the fixture by not having enough players, and informed you same time, 9PM, would you still think you were entitled to payment? Whether they were honest or not, whether they made 3 players feign injury to forfeit the game? If we did, we’d be earning a hell of a lot of money for sitting on our sofas
opportunity cost, what we lost by selecting another option.
If the team failed the fixture by not having enough players, and informed you same time, 9PM, would you still think you were entitled to payment? Whether they were honest or not, whether they made 3 players feign injury to forfeit the game? If we did, we’d be earning a hell of a lot of money for sitting on our sofas
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Runner-Ref
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You are not owed any money, regardless of whether they have lied or not. You were given at least 12 hours notice of the fixture being called off. During that time, you could have gone out and checked to see if there were any available games elsewhere. I have 2 emails this morning from a fixture secretary looking for a couple of officials, so these late appointments can certainly happen.
We are not contracted, therefore we are not owed any money if we don't actually officiate a game or do an official inspection.
In regards to the home team refusing another pitch, unless there's a league rule that stipulates they must take it, its their perogative. Some clubs do care about home ground advantages
We are not contracted, therefore we are not owed any money if we don't actually officiate a game or do an official inspection.
In regards to the home team refusing another pitch, unless there's a league rule that stipulates they must take it, its their perogative. Some clubs do care about home ground advantages
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And they are all things that the league should be investigating, not you.
I've extracted this from SCoR-Y (SCoR is the same) which details payment eligibility ...
In the event of a match not being played because of circumstances over which the Clubs have no control, the Match Officials, if present, shall be entitled to full fee plus expenses/half fee plus expenses/expenses only. Where a match is not played owing to one Club being in default, that Club shall be ordered to pay the Officials, if they attend the ground, their full fee and expenses.
The bit in italics is what the league can choose, they cannot change any of the non-italic text. There's no provision for being paid for a game that was called off the previous day, not matter how wrong that decision turns out to be.
Join the House of Lords then!
I am a groundskeeper for my son’s club and we regularly call games off if heavy rain is forecast or the games have had heavy footfall the previous week. Whilst it may look ok, two or three games on a Saturday after heavy rain or when already delicate could ruin it for the rest of the season. We have spent a lot of time and money creating a good set of pitches for kids to play on but it needs care. Our local council is often our yardstick as they also take preventive action.
Why did you call off the game?
Resting the pitch because of the rain, and a game was played on it yesterday.
Ok.
Resting the pitch because of the rain, and a game was played on it yesterday.
Ok.
A ref is an official. Leagues are fine with officials sharing concerns over fixtures not being played. Clubs entering leagues have made a commitment to x of games in x period of time, and leagues do not like games to be called off for spurious reasons like FA Cup games being played on a Sunday and the U15's can get eleven out = Pitch is in unplayable. The result for a the league should be walkover, HW or AW.
We are match officials. Our authority begins when there is a *match* to answer for. When it’s postponed in advance, unfortunately we don’t have authority.
Raising it to the league isn’t exactly a crisis, but ultimately this is the responsibility of league or FA officials, not match
Raising it to the league isn’t exactly a crisis, but ultimately this is the responsibility of league or FA officials, not match
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