The Ref Stop

Everton v Liverpool

Kinsleyr said:
OK fair enough - but you've just said the ref let the game flow. Ok he did it for one team and everytime the other team fell over he gave a foul so like most teams want - they want fair decisions on both sides. I'd have been more than happy if he just let the game flow for both teams as it would have improved the spectacle but it was only for one side.
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We see things differently, but as you say we are all entitled to our opinions🤷🏻‍♂️
 
The Ref Stop
one said:
Here is my take of added time.

On 90min 5min added time was decided and announced. Injury time around 94th was 1min 45 seconds wistle to whistle. There was no other cases warranting further added time.

My guess is MO had decided to add 2 full minutes. Just about any of us would have done the same. Everton's attacking opportunity to score started around 96.55. At 97.00 it was a promising attack. Goal was scored at 97.06.

It's all well and good to say there was too much time added. Maybe there was from a fan viewpoint. Two things everyone needs to know.

1. Referee has discretion over how much time is added.
2. No one neutral expects full time to be blown during a promising attack. But even that is at the referee's discretion.
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There have been other threads on here discussing incidents where a promising attack was allowed to develop even though time was up and causing issues. Another example of refereeing being damned if you do, damned if you don't.
 
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GraemeS said:
I've pointed out multiple times that his decision making was all over the place all game - giving an FK for a dive that led to a goal is just the "highlight" of a generally poor performance that you're defending him for despite...not watching the game? I'm not hiding my motivation for thinking it was an awful performance - what's your motivation for assuming it wasn't?
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In your opinion, as a Liverpool fan. I have absolutely no dog in this fight, and I don't think it was even close to an "awful performance". Best not to post on a topic involving your team if you aren't capable of being subjective, as one member has just learnt as he has earned a 2 week "rest".
 
Hilly1618 said:
We see things differently, but as you say we are all entitled to our opinions🤷🏻‍♂️
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Not when they accuse the referee of making biased decisions we aren't.

I'm going to say this again, having got home and spent time I don't have trawling through this topic, if the topic involves the team you support and you aren't capable of posting subjectively my very strong advice would be to stay off here and go on a fan's forum. One member has been suspended and a couple are teetering on the edge, it happens every time certain teams have decisions go against them and it is beyond tiresome.
 
Hilly1618 said:
Who’d be a referee! Didn’t watch the game live but watched the extended highlights this morning knowing already about a lot of the incidents. It must have been a horrible game to referee and MO was never going to please all of those watching (supporters of either team or watching non biased referees🤣) It appears he tried to referee the game in a way that the players wanted (letting the game flow🫣 ) but then got castigated by players for penalising them at other times. No major bloopers in my opinion, additional time is always down the official in the middle , the nudge before the equalising goal was not enough to be penalised. I thought MO did 👌
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Likewise, not a supporter of either team, I watched the extended replay on TNT this afternoon, I thought MO refereed well, one mistake for free kick for Everton first goal.

IMHO, not a foul for the Everton equaliser, notice Konate didn’t complain.

I think all his cautions were spot on, no second YCs was fine.

Red cards at the end, were fully justified.

I think the players & management lost control not MO.

It was a very good EPL match & a fitting send off for the last Merseyside derby at Goodison Park.
 
DJIC said:
IMHO, not a foul for the Everton equaliser, notice Konate didn’t complain.
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Having mentioned on another thread about player reactions sometimes leading us to the correct decision, I noticed that too.
 
“it happens every time certain teams have decisions go against them and it is beyond tiresome.“

Amen.
 
Paul_10 said:
I think maybe in Europe, that 'push' may of been intervened upon but in the PL, it has to be alot more obvious, whether that's right or wrong will split opinion but the fact it has not outraged the pundits(unlike that lewis skelly red card) from what I have seen suggests the VAR was right not to intervene.

I didn't see the issue of Oliver giving advantage to Gakpo and not showing a second yellow to the Everton player. I thought Gakpo was too honest(or nieve) not to go to ground there but his pass did potentially create a Liverpool attack. I would suspect Oliver may not of produced a second yellow though, higher threshold for second yellows, keeping it 11v11 or he won't see it as a SPA may if been reasons why.

And Bradley's potential second yellow card was never a yellow card offense nevermind a second yellow.
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The missing second yellows are a problem that the prem and PGMOL seem to have created. We are seeing game changing SPA fouls not given on second yellows to “keep 11 on the pitch.” It’s quite the departure from the LotG. I get it, here the Gakpo incident (like Bergvall the other week) the referee is not playing advantage (and making a mistake in law that way) but instead ignoring blatant YC offences.
 
(MO didn’t signal advantage on the Gakpo 2nd yellows did he? …I couldn’t watch properly as Miss Sangria was in tears as she thought she’d lost the cat. I watched about ten mins of the game properly - guilt ridden - in between stalking the neighbourhood cooing for my idiot cat, until 2am. Love him. The muppet came back at 8:30 just as we had sat the kids down to tell them. Last minute equalizer insignificant compared to the drama at my house!)
 
ChasObserverRefDeveloper said:
I've e-mailed President Trump to give a definitive answer on each point. Until his reply I will join those ignoring this thread as there's nothing to learn here.
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You should've just asked me!
I could have ended this Scouse War of Words with an incontrovertible 'one liner' at any time...
but I thought I'd wait until the Mods had died of exhaustion first
 
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RustyRef said:
In your opinion, as a Liverpool fan. I have absolutely no dog in this fight, and I don't think it was even close to an "awful performance". Best not to post on a topic involving your team if you aren't capable of being subjective, as one member has just learnt as he has earned a 2 week "rest".
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Conversely, perhaps tell people who haven't even watched a game to stop opining as if they have? I might be a Liverpool fan, but I'm also a ref (who understands the concepts of "dives" and "foul tolerance") and I'm someone who actually watched the game. I don't need someone who didn't see the game looking at isolated key incidents and trying to tell me MO was "adjusting his tolerance" when it's blatantly obvious he just missed dives and got foul detection consistently wrong, including in moments that turned out to be pivotal.

I find myself being told I'm wrong by people who didn't watch the game and are supporting MO based purely on the fact he wears (metaphorical) black. Referees are the people who came up with the idea that there are three teams on the pitch - I will take your note on board, but maybe keep a critical eye out for people who blindly support the third team with blinkers on as well?
 
GraemeS said:
Conversely, perhaps tell people who haven't even watched a game to stop opining as if they have? I might be a Liverpool fan, but I'm also a ref (who understands the concepts of "dives" and "foul tolerance") and I'm someone who actually watched the game. I don't need someone who didn't see the game looking at isolated key incidents and trying to tell me MO was "adjusting his tolerance" when it's blatantly obvious he just missed dives and got foul detection consistently wrong, including in moments that turned out to be pivotal.

I find myself being told I'm wrong by people who didn't watch the game and are supporting MO based purely on the fact he wears (metaphorical) black. Referees are the people who came up with the idea that there are three teams on the pitch - I will take your note on board, but maybe keep a critical eye out for people who blindly support the third team with blinkers on as well?
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I did watch the match but didn’t comment that you were wrong, I just had a different opinion on MO’s performance.

Can an opinion be wrong or right?

It is not easy refereeing a top EPL derby at the best of times, add in the recent disgrace of death threats to his family (2 year old daughter), plus needing police protection at his house, I think he has done remarkably well.
 
DJIC said:
I did watch the match but didn’t comment that you were wrong, I just had a different opinion on MO’s performance.

Can an opinion be wrong or right?

It is not easy refereeing a top EPL derby at the best of times, add in the recent disgrace of death threats to his family (2 year old daughter), plus needing police protection at his house, I think he has done remarkably well.
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This is where PGMOL are completely tone deaf. We all know what happened to MO over the last few weeks after the red card, so why put him in charge of such a big game like a derby? Are they struggling that much for people who can control big games?

If they had any sense, they would have kept him out of the spotlight for a little while longer.
 
Runner Ref said:
If they had any sense, they would have kept him out of the spotlight for a little while longer.
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I strongly suspect the MO wants to be back on the big games. PGMOL shouldn't really have given him that game so soon after everything else, but I doubt he's the type that chooses to stop reffing big games after a few threats from some online idiots. I doubt they would have put him on the game if he didn't want it.
 
Gabriel said:
I strongly suspect the MO wants to be back on the big games. PGMOL shouldn't really have given him that game so soon after everything else, but I doubt he's the type that chooses to stop reffing big games after a few threats from some online idiots. I doubt they would have put him on the game if he didn't want it.
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Any good manager would make a judgement call and decide it’s not worth it. There would be nothing wrong at all with giving him a game, just elsewhere. There are other referees who need the exposure of officiating these games. Giving them to MO & AT all the time is not going to help. Especially after what MO has recently gone through.

They lost a lot of experience over the last few years, but the new crop won’t gain that experience if they aren’t given the chance.
 
Runner Ref said:
Any good manager would make a judgement call. There would be nothing wrong at all with giving him a game, just elsewhere. There are other referees who need the exposure of officiating these games. Giving them to MO & AT all the time is not going to help. Especially after what MO has recently gone through.

They lost a lot of experience over the last few years, but the new crop won’t gain that experience if they aren’t given the chance.
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I completely agree. I personally think Chris Kavanagh or John Brooks could start refereeing these games more often (or just reffing it in the first place in Brooks' case), given they are the next Elite English refs judging by their recent games. The only problem was this one in particular needed MO or AT more than most, as it was the last Goodison derby. Moving forwards, they do need to start using other officials for these games as well.
 
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