Everton v Liverpool

[RustyRef]

Conversely, perhaps tell people who haven't even watched a game to stop opining as if they have? I might be a Liverpool fan, but I'm also a ref (who understands the concepts of "dives" and "foul tolerance") and I'm someone who actually watched the game. I don't need someone who didn't see the game looking at isolated key incidents and trying to tell me MO was "adjusting his tolerance" when it's blatantly obvious he just missed dives and got foul detection consistently wrong, including in moments that turned out to be pivotal.

I find myself being told I'm wrong by people who didn't watch the game and are supporting MO based purely on the fact he wears (metaphorical) black. Referees are the people who came up with the idea that there are three teams on the pitch - I will take your note on board, but maybe keep a critical eye out for people who blindly support the third team with blinkers on as well?

I think you might be confusing supporting MO with referees often trying to understand why mistakes might have been made. This is, after all, a refereeing forum. It was the "awful performance" that had my concerns raised, not many people other than Liverpool fans think it was anything even close to that. He potentially fell victim to simulation, but this wasn't a KMD as you described it, it was a foul in the middle of the pitch that Liverpool then failed to defend properly. And he might have missed a foul in the build up to the equaliser, I personally don't think it was as it was consistent with contact that he had let go throughout the game.

And I have dealt with people that didn't post appropriately, one of which is currently on holiday. I'll be open and honest, I was 50/50 whether to issue the same warning for your post but went for an admonishment instead.

 

[Runner Ref]

I think you might be confusing supporting MO with referees often trying to understand why mistakes might have been made. This is, after all, a refereeing forum. It was the "awful performance" that had my concerns raised, not many people other than Liverpool fans think it was anything even close to that. He potentially fell victim to simulation, but this wasn't a KMD as you described it, it was a foul in the middle of the pitch that Liverpool then failed to defend properly. And he might have missed a foul in the build up to the equaliser, I personally don't think it was as it was consistent with contact that he had let go throughout the game.

And I have dealt with people that didn't post appropriately, one of which is currently on holiday. I'll be open and honest, I was 50/50 whether to issue the same warning for your post but went for an admonishment instead.

As I’ve said higher up, I don’t think MO was great and I don’t think he was horrendous. I think he was a bit all over the place with his foul recognition.

But I don’t think you can say the bit in bold after he gave the free kick that led to the first goal. The defenders weren’t even close to making contact. And the way N’Diaye fell was a sign no contact was made.

 

[RustyRef]

I completely agree. I personally think Chris Kavanagh or John Brooks could start refereeing these games more often (or just reffing it in the first place in Brooks' case), given they are the next Elite English refs judging by their recent games. The only problem was this one in particular needed MO or AT more than most, as it was the last Goodison derby. Moving forwards, they do need to start using other officials for these games as well.

They are in fairness, the big games have been spread around much more this season. Peter Bankes got Arsenal vs Man City recently, something I don't think anyone saw coming. John Brooks, Sam Barrott, Rob Jones, Jarred Gillett, etc, have all had big games this season, the latter as an example had Spurs vs Arsenal and Newcastle vs Man City in consecutive games.

What constitutes a big game is somewhat skewed this season though. Two of the traditional top 4/6 clubs are languishing in the lower half, and there's also the complication that Jones, Bankes and Gillett cannot referee Liverpool.

 

[RustyRef]

As I’ve said higher up, I don’t think MO was great and I don’t think he was horrendous. I think he was a bit all over the place with his foul recognition.

But I don’t think you can say the bit in bold after he gave the free kick that led to the first goal. The defenders weren’t even close to making contact. And the way N’Diaye fell was a sign no contact was made.

Referees make mistakes, it happens, he thought N'Diaye had been tripped and gave the free kick. But throughout the game he was allowing a lot of physical contact go, the commentators even referenced it.

 

[Runner Ref]

So according to your theory, he was consistent in his approach and let the game flow by saying this isn’t a foul

New angle of late Salah foul highlights horrific referee performance

And N’Diayes was. (The video I shared has been taken down!)

‘Commentators even referenced it’- I forgot that you held commentators opinions with such regard……….

 

[RustyRef]

So according to your theory, he was consistent in his approach and let the game flow by saying this isn’t a foul

New angle of late Salah foul highlights horrific referee performance

And N’Diayes was. (The video I shared has been taken down!)

‘Commentators even referenced it’- I forgot that you held commentators opinions with such regard……….

I'm not referring to individual decisions, I'm talking about he let things go in the game as a whole. Not saying he didn't make mistakes, but referees do in almost every Premier League game.

 

[Runner Ref]

I'm not referring to individual decisions, I'm talking about he let things go in the game as a whole. Not saying he didn't make mistakes, but referees do in almost every Premier League game.

Letting the game flow is just a vague term. We could all let the game flow by just not blowing the whistle. Doesn’t really mean anything.

 

[LothianRef]

This is where PGMOL are completely tone deaf. We all know what happened to MO over the last few weeks after the red card, so why put him in charge of such a big game like a derby? Are they struggling that much for people who can control big games?

If they had any sense, they would have kept him out of the spotlight for a little while longer.

I think this game was slightly different because Oliver was due to referee it on the initial date before it was called off (ie well before the Arsenal red card). If someone else was then appointed then no doubt one of the tabloid newspapers would run a “Michael Oliver AXED from Merseyside derby” type headline to generate controversy over nothing. So basically I think the PGMOL had a difficult choice either way.

 

[Runner Ref]

I think this game was slightly different because Oliver was due to referee it on the initial date before it was called off (ie well before the Arsenal red card). If someone else was then appointed then no doubt one of the tabloid newspapers would run a “Michael Oliver AXED from Merseyside derby” type headline to generate controversy over nothing. So basically I think the PGMOL had a difficult choice either way.

Not really. It’s very common at higher levels that original officials won’t office the game due to closed date. Especially at this level where a UEFA appointment could come in.

I agree that the media will jump on stuff, but I’ve never seen them jump on an official change for a rescheduled game.

 

[Runner Ref]

They are in fairness, the big games have been spread around much more this season. Peter Bankes got Arsenal vs Man City recently, something I don't think anyone saw coming. John Brooks, Sam Barrott, Rob Jones, Jarred Gillett, etc, have all had big games this season, the latter as an example had Spurs vs Arsenal and Newcastle vs Man City in consecutive games.

What constitutes a big game is somewhat skewed this season though. Two of the traditional top 4/6 clubs are languishing in the lower half, and there's also the complication that Jones, Bankes and Gillett cannot referee Liverpool.

This is due to a change of management

 

[GraemeS]

I think you might be confusing supporting MO with referees often trying to understand why mistakes might have been made. This is, after all, a refereeing forum. It was the "awful performance" that had my concerns raised, not many people other than Liverpool fans think it was anything even close to that. He potentially fell victim to simulation, but this wasn't a KMD as you described it, it was a foul in the middle of the pitch that Liverpool then failed to defend properly. And he might have missed a foul in the build up to the equaliser, I personally don't think it was as it was consistent with contact that he had let go throughout the game.

And I have dealt with people that didn't post appropriately, one of which is currently on holiday. I'll be open and honest, I was 50/50 whether to issue the same warning for your post but went for an admonishment instead.

I thought I was told to drop it? So you get a right to argue with me and then threaten that if I dare to respond, I get banned?

 

[RustyRef]

I thought I was told to drop it? So you get a right to argue with me and then threaten that if I dare to respond, I get banned?

I have neither argued with you nor threatened to ban you. I was referring to some of your previous posts in this topic that could have been construed as having a fan bias, not for the first time in a topic involving Liverpool. That isn't threatening to ban you for responding to me, it is saying that if we feel that people have posted as fans rather than referees they face having a rest, just as it says in the pinned post that we keep having to update because people keep ignoring this and fellow members complain about them.

 

[GraemeS]

I have neither argued with you nor threatened to ban you.

I think you might be confusing supporting MO with referees often trying to understand why mistakes might have been made. This is, after all, a refereeing forum. It was the "awful performance" that had my concerns raised, not many people other than Liverpool fans think it was anything even close to that. He potentially fell victim to simulation, but this wasn't a KMD as you described it, it was a foul in the middle of the pitch that Liverpool then failed to defend properly. And he might have missed a foul in the build up to the equaliser, I personally don't think it was as it was consistent with contact that he had let go throughout the game.

And I have dealt with people that didn't post appropriately, one of which is currently on holiday. I'll be open and honest, I was 50/50 whether to issue the same warning for your post but went for an admonishment instead.

This seems to fairly clearly be disagreeing with the points I've made during this thread. And the following paragraph fairly clearly threatens me with a ban if I dare explain why the bit I've bolded is wrong, misunderstanding or deliberately misrepresented my points.

So which is it? Are you continuing the discussion with me or stopping it? I'll respect and follow the lead I'm given either way, but you can't have it both ways.

 

[JamesL]

This seems to fairly clearly be disagreeing with the points I've made during this thread. And the following paragraph fairly clearly threatens me with a ban if I dare explain why the bit I've bolded is wrong, misunderstanding or deliberately misrepresented my points.

So which is it? Are you continuing the discussion with me or stopping it? I'll respect and follow the lead I'm given either way, but you can't have it both ways.

There was no threat in that post. All it says it was considered.
Saying it was considered is very different to your accusations of if you argue with me I will ban you, which is not at all the context of the post.

 

[GraemeS]

There was no threat in that post. All it says it was considered.
Saying it was considered is very different to your accusations of if you argue with me I will ban you, which is not at all the context of the post.

So I'm free to continue the discussion?

 

[RustyRef]

This seems to fairly clearly be disagreeing with the points I've made during this thread. And the following paragraph fairly clearly threatens me with a ban if I dare explain why the bit I've bolded is wrong, misunderstanding or deliberately misrepresented my points.

So which is it? Are you continuing the discussion with me or stopping it? I'll respect and follow the lead I'm given either way, but you can't have it both ways.

You said that I argued with you, but the first sentence that you bolded is a fact, awarding a free kick in the middle of the pitch cannot possibly be an incorrect KMD, something at least one other poster corrected you on. The second sentence was my opinion on a potential foul. At no place in the text that you have bolded is there any evidence of me having argued with you.

You then said that I threatened to ban you if you replied to me. I clearly didn't and rather, as @JamesL has correctly said, pointed out that one of your previous posts was close to being considered as a fan post, and as we have said that many times that triggers an immediate suspension.

To answer your final question, yes you are free to continue the discussion as long as you do so as a referee rather than a Liverpool fan, keep it civil and post sensibly.

 

[GraemeS]

You said that I argued with you, but the first sentence that you bolded is a fact, awarding a free kick in the middle of the pitch cannot possibly be an incorrect KMD, something at least one other poster corrected you on. The second sentence was my opinion on a potential foul. At no place in the text that you have bolded is there any evidence of me having argued with you.

You then said that I threatened to ban you if you replied to me. I clearly didn't and rather, as @JamesL has correctly said, pointed out that one of your previous posts was close to being considered as a fan post, and as we have said that many times that triggers an immediate suspension.

To answer your final question, yes you are free to continue the discussion as long as you do so as a referee rather than a Liverpool fan, keep it civil and post sensibly.

I decline your obvious invitation to walk into a trap. You didn't watch the game but have strong opinions about if MO had a good performance or not - why should I assume anything you write is in good faith?

 

[RustyRef]

I decline your obvious invitation to walk into a trap. You didn't watch the game but have strong opinions about if MO had a good performance or not - why should I assume anything you write is in good faith?

Are you on the wind up? Where at any point have I said that I didn't watch the game? You are just making things up as you go along and making yourself look rather silly in the process.

 

[Big Cat]

Fight fight fight fight
I'm going 4/7 Rusty 5/4 GrahamS
I need a big margin cos I've never clapped eyes on either of them

 

[ARF]

Fight fight fight fight
I'm going 4/7 Rusty 5/4 GrahamS
I need a big margin cos I've never clapped eyes on either of them

I've seen @RustyRef get angry with a lethal weapon in hand... £50 on @GraemeS to win please!