A&H

Did I handle this right?

OnlyUseMeWhistle

OnlyUseMeWhistle

RefChat Addict
Level 4W Referee
Reffed a cup game between two teams 9 divisions apart in my area. The lower division side put up a good performance and went 2-0 before being pegged back to 2-2 at HT. They were 4-3 down with ten minute to go when I give them a corner, a call I appreciate was marginal but I have to make a call either way and the ball looked out. The Keeper from the higher division side responds by shouting "How's that a f***ing corner?" from across the box. I'd had quite a good game up until then and both teams had been, despite the close score line, well mannered sportsmen. I decided not to show a red, in the context that he'd done it from far away and that it was a tense game and the captain immediately apologised for him. The other team then scores from said corner, 4-4, and eventually penalties.

I warned both keepers about staying on their line twice in the shootout. But when the higher teams keeper saved the third penalty he came half a foot off his line so I ordered a retake which was scored. At this point as he is walking away he says "you've had a f***ing mare today". Given his team had to score both of their next two and he had to save the next two to even get to sudden death I decided sending him off would add to any frustration and just be unnecessary grief in a game that was seconds from being over. I just told him I'd been well within my right to send him off for what he'd said and his team missed their next penalty and it's all over.

Should I have just sent him off? What would you guys, with more than two games under your belt like me, have done?
 
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Swearing is not a red card in itself.
Personally I see these as dissent as opposed to Offinabus.
I think a stepped approach would have worked best, after the first one I'd remind him that dissent is a sinbin and as he is the keeper it means one of his mates will have to cover him for 10.
At the penalties I'd be giving a caution for dissent.
Of course, as blatant as that we could hop straight to the bin but in a well mannered game an uncharacteristic outburst can be managed
 
Thank you! Interesting as my instructor on my course said swearing at the ref was a straight red but I suppose it's not quite swearing at the referee in this case?
 
OnlyUseMeWhistle said:
Thank you! Interesting as my instructor on my course said swearing at the ref was a straight red but I suppose it's not quite swearing at the referee in this case?
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Nothing about swearing at the ref in law.
It's a red card to use offensive, insulting and or abusive language (offinabus) towards any participant not just limited to at the referee.
 
OnlyUseMeWhistle said:
Thank you! Interesting as my instructor on my course said swearing at the ref was a straight red but I suppose it's not quite swearing at the referee in this case?
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Being really old school, the law used to be "Foul or Abusive Language" so there was always scope within the law to dismiss for any swearing....

On a point of law, I don't know if sin-bins are in operation for KFTPM (penalty kicks); but you best option would have been - call the keeper over after the outburst during the penalty kicks, explain he had his chance for the corner outburst so, have a YC"
 
lincs22 said:
Being really old school, the law used to be "Foul or Abusive Language" so there was always scope within the law to dismiss for any swearing....

On a point of law, I don't know if sin-bins are in operation for KFTPM (penalty kicks); but you best option would have been - call the keeper over after the outburst during the penalty kicks, explain he had his chance for the corner outburst so, have a YC"
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No, sin bins aren't in operation at KFTPM.
 
lincs22 said:
Thanks - never ever thought about it until now. There are some things you don't learn.
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Tbf I don't think it is explicit but lotg says

• A player who is still serving a temporary dismissal at the end of the match is
permitted to take part in kicks from the penalty mark (penalties)

And also there is no playing time to be suspended from so is a c2 no sin bin for me.
 
Swearing at the ref ( you are a...) is likely to be offensive. Swearing about the ref's decision (your game was, how is that a...) is likely to be dissent.

You don't necessarily need swearing for offinabus or dissent. And swearing doesn't necessarily mean offinabus or dissent. Context has a lot to do with it.

For the OP, both seem to be comments about decisions. Second one is definately a caution for me because he had priors. For the first one I can accept no caution as everyone has been well behaved untill then, but if in my game I'd be cautioning for dissent simply because it was loud and came from a long way away. It would have been easy to sell and probably prevented the second one from happening.

Having said that, well done as neither of those decisions impacted your ability to control a close game. But be aware in another game it may not be the same.
 
Definition of insulting is:
An insult is an expression or statement which is disrespectful or scornful. Insults may be intentional or accidental. An insult may be factual, but at the same time pejatorive.
For me, the goalkeeper's comment during the penalties meets that description.
 
OnlyUseMeWhistle said:
Reffed a cup game between two teams 9 divisions apart in my area. The lower division side put up a good performance and went 2-0 before being pegged back to 2-2 at HT. They were 4-3 down with ten minute to go when I give them a corner, a call I appreciate was marginal but I have to make a call either way and the ball looked out. The Keeper from the higher division side responds by shouting "How's that a f***ing corner?" from across the box. I'd had quite a good game up until then and both teams had been, despite the close score line, well mannered sportsmen. I decided not to show a red, in the context that he'd done it from far away and that it was a tense game and the captain immediately apologised for him. The other team then scores from said corner, 4-4, and eventually penalties.

I warned both keepers about staying on their line twice in the shootout. But when the higher teams keeper saved the third penalty he came half a foot off his line so I ordered a retake which was scored. At this point as he is walking away he says "you've had a f***ing mare today". Given his team had to score both of their next two and he had to save the next two to even get to sudden death I decided sending him off would add to any frustration and just be unnecessary grief in a game that was seconds from being over. I just told him I'd been well within my right to send him off for what he'd said and his team missed their next penalty and it's all over.

Should I have just sent him off? What would you guys, with more than two games under your belt like me, have done?
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Sounds like you did OK. Keep in mind how difficult your job is!
As you gain experience, you'll become more impenetrable to these comments (or swearing not otherwise acceptable in your day-to-day life)
A stern rebuff would be apt, something like, 'bit harsh innit fella? You need to focus on saving your next penalty rather than ask me for directions to the car park'. That way, he's got the message and you've avoided further conflict incurred via a dismissal. Difficult, given there's a lot on the line for you and the players at that moment in the game. Nothing wrong with ordering the retake if the keeper was taking the Michael off the line
 
Anubis said:
Gks comments are easy dealt with by a ' it wasnt really your best game either"
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I’ve never been a fan of these kinds of retorts from referees. I think It is best for us to try to deescalate, not to inflame. Some refs may be able to get away with these kind of cracks in the right context, but to me they seem more likely to throw gas on the flames. We don’t have to win the battle of words to be in control.
 
The fact you are asking yourself questions to better your game shows your maturity as a referee.

Sounds like you handled it great. Your next similar experience, you may do it again, or choose another action.

For me, the three P's: personal, provocative, and public. Is it direct, meant to get a reaction, and made for all to hear? That's my dissent gauge.

OAI? Well, my league hates a few particular words and find them immediately offensive. I have to apply the league's preferred focus.
 
I'm strict on language BUT from what the keeper said on the first occasion i would be sin-binning. Maybe that may have stopped incident one.

Incident 2, for me, is a definite c2 non-sin bin offence. He's not quite saying enough to get a red card, for me.

Am i right in thinking yellow cards already issued in normal / extra time don't carry over to KFTPM?
 
socal lurker said:
I’ve never been a fan of these kinds of retorts from referees. I think It is best for us to try to deescalate, not to inflame. Some refs may be able to get away with these kind of cracks in the right context, but to me they seem more likely to throw gas on the flames. We don’t have to win the battle of words to be in control.
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Agreed. Throw in gags/jabs if the mood is right, but definitely don't go into a game with that attitude or you're only going to wind people up.
 
Tim - 2013 said:
For me, the three P's: personal, provocative, and public. Is it direct, meant to get a reaction, and made for all to hear? That's my dissent gauge.
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The first P should be in your offinabus gauge. It is for me. The next two are good measures for dissent.
The biggest for me is a C word, context.
 
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