The Ref Stop

City vs Liverpool

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The Ref Stop
Another replay from a different angle shows Robertson briefly holding the goalkeeper and releasing a second or two before the ball crosses the line.
 
Football expects, and referees have generally given, an offside when a player ducks out of the way of a ball that is heading towards goal. Is this inconsistent with how the Law is actually written? Absolutely, but that’s well above my paygrade.
 
shandow said:
Another replay from a different angle shows Robertson briefly holding the goalkeeper and releasing a second or two before the ball crosses the line.
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This is irrelevant in as much that for the Man City goal vs wolves it was irrelevant that Bernado Silva was jostling with the goalkeeper.
We either give a foul (for holding / jostling) or we give offside. If at the time of the header towards goal, the player is still jostling / holding then they are absolutely interfering with an opponent and offside would be given, but we can't judge them offside for holding / jostling before the header, which is when the offside judgement is made from.

It always seems to be the same club that whenever a decision goes against them, a big argument erupts on here.

Additionally, it always seems to be the same members who can't wait to say how the PGMOL officials are incorrect.

Again... I say the above despite my opinion that I err on the side of this goal should stand, but I can absolutely see why people don't think it should, and I certainly don't think Liverpool have any case to write to Howard Webb about... VAR was never going to get involved with how close the ball went to Robertson.

Liverpool should be blaming Robertson for being in an offside position unnecessarily. To quote @JamesL , play silly games and win silly prizes.
 
RefereeX said:
This is irrelevant in as much that for the Man City goal vs wolves it was irrelevant that Bernado Silva was jostling with the goalkeeper.
We either give a foul (for holding / jostling) or we give offside. If at the time of the header towards goal, the player is still jostling / holding then they are absolutely interfering with an opponent and offside would be given, but we can't judge them offside for holding / jostling before the header, which is when the offside judgement is made from.

It always seems to be the same club that whenever a decision goes against them, a big argument erupts on here.

Additionally, it always seems to be the same members who can't wait to say how the PGMOL officials are incorrect.

Again... I say the above despite my opinion that I err on the side of this goal should stand, but I can absolutely see why people don't think it should, and I certainly don't think Liverpool have any case to write to Howard Webb about... VAR was never going to get involved with how close the ball went to Robertson.

Liverpool should be blaming Robertson for being in an offside position unnecessarily. To quote @JamesL , play silly games and win silly prizes.
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And its always the same members who will back/justify/agree with PGMOL officials, no matter what. Rather than just calling them out for their **** ups. The old 'mental gymnastics' comes to mind. The MLS incident vs Wolves will forever be my favourite. Howard Webb had many peoples pants down on here on that one.

It's also the same members who we are basically forced to agree with, otherwise we're either suspended or threads are closed down. We're meant to believe that certain people on here are 'experts', yet they are commonly wrong in law.

For the bit in bold; the problem is, you don't know that they aren't going to get involved. It is an absolute lottery as to whether VAR will get involved in a situation or not.
 
To divert from the offside incident, a less controversial incident because it had no impact, but also interesting, what does everyone think about the Doku penalty incident. I thought it didn't cross the C&O threshold for VAR to intervene.
 
one said:
To divert from the offside incident, a less controversial incident because it had no impact, but also interesting, what does everyone think about the Doku penalty incident. I thought it didn't cross the C&O threshold for VAR to intervene.
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If given in real time, can live with it. No idea how it was deemed C&O
 
Runner Ref said:
And its always the same members who will back/justify/agree with PGMOL officials, no matter what. Rather than just calling them out for their **** ups. The old 'mental gymnastics' comes to mind. The MLS incident vs Wolves will forever be my favourite. Howard Webb had many peoples pants down on here on that one.

It's also the same members who we are basically forced to agree with, otherwise we're either suspended or threads are closed down. We're meant to believe that certain people on here are 'experts', yet they are commonly wrong in law.

For the bit in bold; the problem is, you don't know that they aren't going to get involved. It is an absolute lottery as to whether VAR will get involved in a situation or not.
Click to expand...

Nobody is forcing anybody to agree with anything, but constant back with no real development in the discussion ruins threads for everyone.

One of the many excellent things about refereeing is the opportunity to meet the elite. Step 5/6 footballers don't get training sessions given to them by Premier League players very often, but it's not hard if you look in the right place as a step 5/6 referee (or even a level 7 referee) to come across CPD events / guest speaker events with EFL or occasionally premier league referees.

What this means is that often, people will want to defend their colleagues. That doesn't mean we should blindly say every decision is correct. Of course it won't be... and I like to think I don't. But to suggest that this is an egregiously bad decision stinks of someone desperate to throw a colleague under the bus / is perhaps bitter about not managing to achieve what that individual has. It's very clearly a very subjective decision. You only need to look at what's been said in the media where plenty of non refereeing people are 100% happy with offside.
I'm not in any way suggesting you fit that bill, but this might be how certain users of the forum come across to other users and hence why people get their backs up.
I find it much more justifiable to be a referee who is eager to back other referees decisions wherever possible, than to be a referee eager to criticise other referees decisions wherever possible.

This doesn't take your favourite 'mental gymnastics' to defend. As I've said - I think the goal should stand, but I can absolutely see the justifiable reason to suggest its offside.

Regarding VAR... these officials have many many years of experience refereeing football matches, and only a few years at most experience on VAR. The number of incorrect VAR decisions will continue to go down season on season. I don't know what you suggest as a better system than the C&O system? Because as long as humans are involved in the process, mistakes will be made. And yet I still firmly believe that not getting involved here was absolutely the right thing to do due to the highly subjective nature of the scenario.
 
one said:
To divert from the offside incident, a less controversial incident because it had no impact, but also interesting, what does everyone think about the Doku penalty incident. I thought it didn't cross the C&O threshold for VAR to intervene.
Click to expand...
It probably comes down to what CK said as to why he didn't give the penalty. If he said there is clearly no contact made by the goalkeeper (because he was focussed on the boot of the GK) then VAR is probably correct to get involved because there factually was contact (by the knee of the GK)
 
RefereeX said:
Nobody is forcing anybody to agree with anything, but constant back with no real development in the discussion ruins threads for everyone.

One of the many excellent things about refereeing is the opportunity to meet the elite. Step 5/6 footballers don't get training sessions given to them by Premier League players very often, but it's not hard if you look in the right place as a step 5/6 referee (or even a level 7 referee) to come across CPD events / guest speaker events with EFL or occasionally premier league referees.

What this means is that often, people will want to defend their colleagues. That doesn't mean we should blindly say every decision is correct. Of course it won't be... and I like to think I don't. But to suggest that this is an egregiously bad decision stinks of someone desperate to throw a colleague under the bus / is perhaps bitter about not managing to achieve what that individual has. It's very clearly a very subjective decision. You only need to look at what's been said in the media where plenty of non refereeing people are 100% happy with offside.
I'm not in any way suggesting you fit that bill, but this might be how certain users of the forum come across to other users and hence why people get their backs up.
I find it much more justifiable to be a referee who is eager to back other referees decisions wherever possible, than to be a referee eager to criticise other referees decisions wherever possible.

This doesn't take your favourite 'mental gymnastics' to defend. As I've said - I think the goal should stand, but I can absolutely see the justifiable reason to suggest its offside.

Regarding VAR... these officials have many many years of experience refereeing football matches, and only a few years at most experience on VAR. The number of incorrect VAR decisions will continue to go down season on season. I don't know what you suggest as a better system than the C&O system? Because as long as humans are involved in the process, mistakes will be made. And yet I still firmly believe that not getting involved here was absolutely the right thing to do due to the highly subjective nature of the scenario.
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Plenty of threads are closed because people don't want to agree with a certain 5 or 6 people on here.

So because you met someone, it means you need to defend them all the time?

I don't need to throw anyone under the bus. I still speak to plenty of people within SG1/2 and below and have no issues discussing incidents with them. And in reality, if you got to know these people, you'd know that they have no real qualms with people saying they messed up.

Backing officials no matter what (as certain people on here do) does just as much harm than good to officials.
 
RefereeX said:
It probably comes down to what CK said as to why he didn't give the penalty. If he said there is clearly no contact made by the goalkeeper (because he was focussed on the boot of the GK) then VAR is probably correct to get involved because there factually was contact (by the knee of the GK)
Click to expand...
Contact, yes. But very minimal contact. We’re always talking on here about the higher threshold within the penalty area.
 
RefereeX said:
It probably comes down to what CK said as to why he didn't give the penalty. If he said there is clearly no contact made by the goalkeeper (because he was focussed on the boot of the GK) then VAR is probably correct to get involved because there factually was contact (by the knee of the GK)
Click to expand...
I think we have discussed how VAR operates (or should operate) and number of times. I don't think there is a discussion between the ref and VAR for VAR to decide of ref is clearly and obviously wrong. The ref's decision is binary. Pen/no pen. Red/not red ... VAR should independently decide without consulting with ref if the decision was C&O wrong. Any discussion make it re-refereeing the game.
 
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