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Bacon Vs Barbies

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CapnBloodbeard said:
You don't get to challenge a header with your arms sticking right out and in the path of where the header is going. Defender had the responsibility to keep his arms closer to his body.
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With this logic - and the distance in this case - the law should read "anything that hits a defenders arm/hand in the box is a penalty unless the defender is deliberately keeping their arms close to the body". I'm being a bit flippant but do you get my point?
 
CapnBloodbeard said:
We use arm position as one thing to consider. Defenders need to keep their arm down. You can't challenge a header with your arms sticking right out from your body like that. Just makes him a lot wider if he's allowed to do that. IF that's not a foul then you'd be doing this every time as a defender - and blocking the head from the opponent.


You don't jump with your arm sticking 90 degrees out from your body....

And if this was a fair handling then you'd never jump with your arms close to your body again!
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Players don't run or jump like bean stalks I'm afraid. Did the ball move towards the hand and how far did the ball travel. Proximity is King when deciding on hand balls. Awful officiating all round
 
Been jumping around for few minutes now, looking like an idiot, trying to figure out what is the "natural" position of your hands when you are jumping, and that is not a natural position (at least not for me). But the ball was played to the hand from so close that I would say that this is again one "grey area" foul, could have been called or then not. But grey area fouls surely ain't clear and obvious.
 
Big Cat said:
Players don't run or jump like bean stalks I'm afraid. Did the ball move towards the hand and how far did the ball travel. Proximity is King when deciding on hand balls. Awful officiating all round
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Surely deliberate is still king
Then e.g. proximity and the other criteria...
 
santa sangria said:
With this logic - and the distance in this case - the law should read "anything that hits a defenders arm/hand in the box is a penalty unless the defender is deliberately keeping their arms close to the body". I'm being a bit flippant but do you get my point?
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Well FIFA have said that for slide tackles....
But anyway, time to react drops right down in priority if you're sticking your arm in the path of the ball before it's even struck.
 
santa sangria said:
Surely deliberate is still king
Then e.g. proximity and the other criteria...
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Umm......that's not how it works at all :wall:

You use position, time to reach, arm motion etc to determine if it was deliberate...........

I can't even begin to imagine what your decision making process is.......
 
CapnBloodbeard said:
Well FIFA have said that for slide tackles....
But anyway, time to react drops right down in priority if you're sticking your arm in the path of the ball before it's even struck.
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...slide tackles where you are deliberately making yourself bigger to block a cross...

That is something different...
 
Robbe1 said:
Been jumping around for few minutes now, looking like an idiot, trying to figure out what is the "natural" position of your hands when you are jumping, and that is not a natural position (at least not for me). But the ball was played to the hand from so close that I would say that this is again one "grey area" foul, could have been called or then not. But grey area fouls surely ain't clear and obvious.
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You jump differently when an opponent is in close proximity.
 
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a VAR fan (shock!), but I don't think the process would be so bad if they stuck to the brief> I'm staggered that the VAR thought that was a clear & obvious error. This is then compounded by the ref buying it. I'd be spitting blood in the Denmark dressing room
 
Big Cat said:
Whilst I haven't read the full

Agreed. Proximity is king when determining deliberate
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I'd argue position would be king. If you don't have the chance to react to the ball but your arm is somewhere that it shouldn't have been, then it's 100% your fault.

Actually, arm motion is king. Position is the Queen...that makes proximity.....Joffrey?

santa sangria said:
...slide tackles where you are deliberately making yourself bigger to block a cross...

That is something different...
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Nope. Any slide tackle no matter where the arms are.
 
CapnBloodbeard said:
Umm......that's not how it works at all :wall:

You use position, time to reach, arm motion etc to determine if it was deliberate...........

I can't even begin to imagine what your decision making process is.......
Click to expand...

Here's what I think:
This "unnatural position" guidance means that handballs that are not "deliberate" (meaning) are classified as "deliberate" (in law).
I think it is pretty straightforward that if a handball is obviously deliberate (meaning) then you don't even have to consider the other criteria. I think it is pretty obvious that when the laws say "the following must be considered" it is for cases where there is any doubt.

Anyway, if you must consider, here are those criteria in the laws:
• the movement of the hand towards the ball (not the ball towards the hand) FAIL
• the distance between the opponent and the ball (unexpected ball) FAIL
• the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an offence FAIL
• touching the ball with an object held in the hand (clothing, shinguard, etc.) FAIL
is an offence
• hitting the ball with a thrown object (boot, shinguard, etc.) is an offence FAIL

I don't mind the VAR review... but just nuts the ref called it.
 
No, the unnatural position means that if the arm shouldn't have been there in the first place then that's considered to have been deliberate handling.

I know the criteria in the laws. Third one gets it for me.

As I said, if you think it's fair, then why wouldn't defenders have their arms flailing everytime they go to head the ball?
 
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