The Ref Stop

Birmingham vs Newcastle

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R

Runner Ref

RefChat Addict
Surprised this hasn’t been reported already.

Haven’t seen an angle that 100% confirms it, but what do we think?

Incident starts at 50 seconds

 
The Ref Stop
No goal for me, I've no idea how AR can give that from his position. Had 2 of these a few weeks ago in the same match, both not given. If I'm not sure, it's not a goal
 
Although commentators etc can’t identify from camera positions whether the ball crossed the line, the best person to identify from his aligned position is the active AR and assuming he saw daylight between the goal post and the goal net, then he was correct to identify, which he did immediately the incident occurred.
 
DavidObs said:
Although commentators etc can’t identify from camera positions whether the ball crossed the line, the best person to identify from his aligned position is the active AR and assuming he saw daylight between the goal post and the goal net, then he was correct to identify, which he did immediately the incident occurred.
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He's got as good a position as the best TV camera

Looks in, player position makes it look in...but lino is 100% guessing
 
DavidObs said:
Although commentators etc can’t identify from camera positions whether the ball crossed the line, the best person to identify from his aligned position is the active AR and assuming he saw daylight between the goal post and the goal net, then he was correct to identify, which he did immediately the incident occurred.
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To assume the AR saw daylight from the position he was in when the ‘save’ was made cannot be factored in to this. At the point of contact he was still not in line with the goal line (and nor would you expect him to be) so to have seen daylight the ball would have needed to be far more over the line (if it ever was?) Pure guess work it appears to me.
 
DavidObs said:
Although commentators etc can’t identify from camera positions whether the ball crossed the line, the best person to identify from his aligned position is the active AR and assuming he saw daylight between the goal post and the goal net, then he was correct to identify, which he did immediately the incident occurred.
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Daylight is not a thing.

Due to the speed of everything going on, the AR is not in a position to judge such a tight decision.

As I’ve said previously, it’s very noble that you always try to back referees. But sometimes you just need to admit they were wrong. The AR is not in a position to judge such a tight goal line decision. And in such circumstances, they shouldn’t be flagging.

Your idea of referees can do no wrong does not help anyone.
 
He is in the best position more than anyone, as well as following through, so as soon as the ball was played away by the goalkeeper, who was positioned well behind his goal-line (not that this means it was a goal), the AR was positioned behind the corner flag when he raised his flag to indicate what he identified. Unless there is goal-line technology to prove otherwise, I have no problem with his advice (& I do not believe it was pure guesswork). If I saw the same incident at any level of the game without technology, assuming he answered any question I would raise in the PMD appropriately, then I would support the decision made & I would expect the same from any Observer etc.
 
DavidObs said:
He is in the best position more than anyone, as well as following through, so as soon as the ball was played away by the goalkeeper, who was positioned well behind his goal-line (not that this means it was a goal), the AR was positioned behind the corner flag when he raised his flag to indicate what he identified. Unless there is goal-line technology to prove otherwise, I have no problem with his advice (& I do not believe it was pure guesswork). If I saw the same incident at any level of the game without technology, assuming he answered any question I would raise in the PMD appropriately, then I would support the decision made & I would expect the same from any Observer etc.
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He wasn't behind the corner flag when it happened though, there's no way he can be sure from this position. Unless someone level with the goalpost was filming it and releases their footage no one, Nigel Lugg included, will know for sure whether it crossed the line or not

1739125713070.png
 
DavidObs said:
He is in the best position more than anyone, as well as following through, so as soon as the ball was played away by the goalkeeper, who was positioned well behind his goal-line (not that this means it was a goal), the AR was positioned behind the corner flag when he raised his flag to indicate what he identified. Unless there is goal-line technology to prove otherwise, I have no problem with his advice (& I do not believe it was pure guesswork). If I saw the same incident at any level of the game without technology, assuming he answered any question I would raise in the PMD appropriately, then I would support the decision made & I would expect the same from any Observer etc.
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Being placed behind the corner flag when you flag does not mean you were up with play.

On the screenshot I have posted, the AR has not yet signalled ball over the line and this shot is literally someone hitting the rebound from the goalkeepers save.

It is 100% a guess

You are doing a massive disservice to both referee and football by saying anything otherwise.
 

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DavidObs said:
He was sure enough, but I would accept not an exact science.
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Do you not realise how you are doing a disservice to football and also refereeing?

As I have said in other threads, you seem to believe that officials can do no wrong. And that is not healthy.
 
Runner Ref said:
Being placed behind the corner flag when you flag does not mean you were up with play.

On the screenshot I have posted, the AR has not yet signalled ball over the line and this shot is literally someone hitting the rebound from the goalkeepers save.

It is 100% a guess

You are doing a massive disservice to both referee and football by saying anything otherwise.
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You are impossible to discuss anything. Fine, with you disagreeing with my view, that’s one thing, but your other comment about disservice is out of order - you always think you are right and you are not.
 
DavidObs said:
You are impossible to discuss anything. Fine, with you disagreeing with my view, that’s one thing, but your other comment about disservice is out of order - you always think you are right and you are not.
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I am more than happy to discuss decisions that are open for debate. But you have the idea that referees are always right. This is not healthy or helpful. I stand by the disservice comment as people outside of refereeing already believe referees are untouchable. So you defending the indefensible adds to this.

Your statement was factually incorrect. The AR was not at the goal line when the goalkeeper made the save.
 
Runner Ref said:
Do you not realise how you are doing a disservice to football and also refereeing?

As I have said in other threads, you seem to believe that officials can do no wrong. And that is not healthy.
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Absolutely incorrect statement about me saying or believing that officials can do no wrong.
 
What are people's thoughts on the actual signal. He appears to agitated the flag as though a foul is committed.
For me it should just be a flag in the air to indicate the ball has left the field of play, rather than an agitated signal.
My thoughts are that the position of the AR at the time of the event lacks credibility which is why some are questioning the decision, one which no one will not truly if it was indeed out of play or not, but there's some best practise here as well on that he stands on the goal line until everyone sees him so no one on the day actually questions it. This step of standing still until everyone sees you in that position is vitally important in selling a goal line decision.
 
JamesL said:
What are people's thoughts on the actual signal. He appears to agitated the flag as though a foul is committed.
For me it should just be a flag in the air to indicate the ball has left the field of play, rather than an agitated signal.
My thoughts are that the position of the AR at the time of the event lacks credibility which is why some are questioning the decision, one which no one will not truly if it was indeed out of play or not, but there's some best practise here as well on that he stands on the goal line until everyone sees him so no one on the day actually questions it. This step of standing still until everyone sees you in that position is vitally important in selling a goal line decision.
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From a referees point of view I completely agree. My pre-match was pretty much the opposite of what the AR does here. But all comes down to what the referees pre-match was.

But selling a decision by being on goal line becomes less important at this level when there are so many cameras
 
He is looking at the goal line from an angle and therefore has a distorted view of whether the ball is over the line.
I think you need to read the room and see player reaction. The GK is absolutely pumped he has pushed it out and the striker holding head in his hands that he has missed his follow up by blasting it over the bar. Nobody that I could see appealed for the goal and when the referee made the decision everybody, commentators included seemed surprised.
 
JamesL said:
What are people's thoughts on the actual signal. He appears to agitated the flag as though a foul is committed.
For me it should just be a flag in the air to indicate the ball has left the field of play, rather than an agitated signal.
My thoughts are that the position of the AR at the time of the event lacks credibility which is why some are questioning the decision, one which no one will not truly if it was indeed out of play or not, but there's some best practise here as well on that he stands on the goal line until everyone sees him so no one on the day actually questions it. This step of standing still until everyone sees you in that position is vitally important in selling a goal line decision.
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James, you are correct with how the flagged signal should be given, raised vertically and not agitated, as well as your best practice thoughts as to standing still whilst aligned on the goal line until a few seconds after the Referee signals a goal so that all can see (though just as important with your without cameras).
 
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