The Ref Stop

VAR Farce

Ryanj91 said:
I just want to praise VAR with the first decision it made which overruled the referee!

The Southampton Red Card

Congratulations 🎊
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But also gave a pen that never was in the 'real world' in the Everton game while allowing a player to be hauled to the floor in the same game without sanction.

My argument isn't really with the decisions per se, although I disagreed with both, its the fact that VAR doesn't add anything - we're still debating decisions as we allways have (part of the game, always has been always will be) except now the game is delayed while the decison is made (for the 2nd time)
 
The Ref Stop
PinnerPaul said:
But also gave a pen that never was in the 'real world' in the Everton game while allowing a player to be hauled to the floor in the same game without sanction.

My argument isn't really with the decisions per se, although I disagreed with both, its the fact that VAR doesn't add anything - we're still debating decisions as we allways have (part of the game, always has been always will be) except now the game is delayed while the decison is made (for the 2nd time)
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I saw an interesting viewpoint expressed online about VAR, saying (and I paraphrase) that the problem with VAR is that despite the good intentions behind it, it still gets things wrong and the whole VAR process is often considerably more irritating to us than wrong decisions were.
 
I retract my comments.

VAR is a disgrace 😂😂😂😂

How did it rule out Arsenal's 3rd goal?! Chambers was fouled. If any infringement was made it Should have been a penalty. Chambers was pushed and tripped up, Sokratis scored, advantage, goal.

Some ludicrous decision making for the goal to be disallowed. Chambers was taken out by three players at once!
 
MOTD2 are sooooooo close to making a good point here. Presenter has quoted the PGMOL saying that "the VAR has made a subjective decision that...". If only he knew enough to highlight that as a misapplication of the procedure rather than simply moving on!
 
I haven't seen Atwell for a bit, I thought he'd been sent back to Parks football!!! Clueless in the Championship!!
 
GraemeS said:
And again in the United match. Why on earth is that decision being overturned without the referee getting another look?
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Never mind VAR. Is the new one foot on the line for GK at a penalty now in the same category as the 6 second rule, i.e. to be ignored by match officials?
 
So what has actually happened at Stockley Park? No clearly wrong decisions overturned all season, and they're suddenly overturning wrong decisions and even decisions that are not obvious errors with "subjective" opinions.

(And spare us the pedantry that VAR doesn't make decisions.)
 
bloovee said:
So what has actually happened at Stockley Park? No clearly wrong decisions overturned all season, and they're suddenly overturning wrong decisions and even decisions that are not obvious errors with "subjective" opinions.

(And spare us the pedantry that VAR doesn't make decisions.)
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Another disastrous weekend for refereeing. Centre of attention and massive hype and controversy. Perhaps that's exactly where FIFA want things to be; the media and fans obsessed by the circus of modern day football
In the absence of VAR, the R and AR simply suffer from momentary blindness and the problem is seamlessly swerved
 
bloovee said:
So what has actually happened at Stockley Park? No clearly wrong decisions overturned all season, and they're suddenly overturning wrong decisions and even decisions that are not obvious errors with "subjective" opinions.

(And spare us the pedantry that VAR doesn't make decisions.)
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I think the problem is actually exactly that - despite the fact that the IFAB say that VAR shouldn't make decisions, that's actually what's happening because the FA have decided to limit the use of the monitor. So the VAR is making a recommendation, the on-field referee is forced to accept those recommendations at face value, so the VAR is de facto making the decision.

And the whole point of the monitor is so that the referee can make subjective decisions that are consistent with what he has been doing so far. And that's being ignored, so we get this situation we're in now where a different subjective standard is being applied by the VAR.
 
GraemeS said:
I think the problem is actually exactly that - despite the fact that the IFAB say that VAR shouldn't make decisions, that's actually what's happening because the FA have decided to limit the use of the monitor. So the VAR is making a recommendation, the on-field referee is forced to accept those recommendations at face value, so the VAR is de facto making the decision.

And the whole point of the monitor is so that the referee can make subjective decisions that are consistent with what he has been doing so far. And that's being ignored, so we get this situation we're in now where a different subjective standard is being applied by the VAR.
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I'm dead against the use of the OFR because it has previously been symbolic only. I'm sure it has happened, but I can't recall ever seeing a R going against the recommendation of the VAR when using the screen. Therefore the OFR only serves to delay the review longer whilst adding pantomime ceremony to the party.
That said, VAR has gotten so bad in the PL at the moment, OFR could hardly make things worse

It's easy to identify how bad VAR is, it's much less clear what the solutions are. That could be because VAR will never fit with dynamics of the game or the dishonest and pathetic cheating culture that exists
 
I'm interested to know what people think about the Arsenal decision. I think they got it technically correct. Chambers stepped on a foot. Why isn't that a foul?

I agree he was pushed. If you look for advantage to accrue and the reason it doesn't is that the attacking player commits a foul do you go back and give the original one? I don't think so.

I'm an Arsenal fan.
 
What a complete dogs dinner Old Mother Riley has cooked up, week after bloody week, games being screwed up more than when he was in the middle and that’s saying something!
 
Big Cat said:
I'm dead against the use of the OFR because it has previously been symbolic only. I'm sure it has happened, but I can't recall ever seeing a R going against the recommendation of the VAR when using the screen. Therefore the OFR only serves to delay the review longer whilst adding pantomime ceremony to the party.
That said, VAR has gotten so bad in the PL at the moment, OFR could hardly make things worse

It's easy to identify how bad VAR is, it's much less clear what the solutions are. That could be because VAR will never fit with dynamics of the game or the dishonest and pathetic cheating culture that exists
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It does happen (I'm sure I can find examples if you really want, but for now let's just trust my memory!), but the system is literally set up so that it happens as rarely as possible. Clear and obvious, doubt with the on-field decision etc, all designed so that if the referee is told he should take a look at the screen, it should only be because it's wrong.

BUT. If we take FIFA's own stats at face value, 99% of on field decisions are correct. Given that VAR is only getting involved in the tricky ones, let's assume that they should be achieving 95% accuracy? Which means that about 1 in 20 times, the VAR will make the wrong recommendation. And by refusing to use the screens, that error has no chance of being caught.
 
GraemeS said:
It does happen (I'm sure I can find examples if you really want, but for now let's just trust my memory!), but the system is literally set up so that it happens as rarely as possible. Clear and obvious, doubt with the on-field decision etc, all designed so that if the referee is told he should take a look at the screen, it should only be because it's wrong.

BUT. If we take FIFA's own stats at face value, 99% of on field decisions are correct. Given that VAR is only getting involved in the tricky ones, let's assume that they should be achieving 95% accuracy? Which means that about 1 in 20 times, the VAR will make the wrong recommendation. And by refusing to use the screens, that error has no chance of being caught.
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Here's my prediction
The mounting pressure will result in the OFR featuring in the EPL
We'll then be disagreeing with, bewildered by and outraged via subjective decisions made using OFR. With the added delay incurred

Ultimately, I think we're discovering (via full circle) that the best way of judging subjective decisions, is in that moment of time in which the on-field referee makes a call to the best of his or her ability (and everyone is [more] accepting of the inherent difficulty and human error)
 
Big Cat said:
Here's my prediction
The mounting pressure will result in the OFR featuring in the EPL
We'll then be disagreeing with, bewildered by and outraged via subjective decisions made using OFR. With the added delay incurred

Ultimately, I think we're discovering (via full circle) that the best way of judging subjective decisions, is in that moment of time in which the on-field referee makes a call to the best of his or her ability (and everyone is [more] accepting of the inherent difficulty and human error)
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Sounds great. As soon as you can somehow magically make the bold bit happen, I'll be all in favour!
 
Big Cat said:
Just compare 'then' & 'now'
I think it's worse 'now' by quite a margin
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Really? I think you might have some rose-tinted glasses on personally, VAR only happened because of the incredible amount of fuss we used to get over every decision.
 
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