The Ref Stop

WSL Crystal Palace v Everton rules breach

The Ref Stop
CaptainsPlease said:
The WSL is investigating a breach of competition rules after Crystal Palace were allowed a fourth substitution opportunity in their 1-0 win against Everton yesterday. The match officials involved will reportedly not be appointed in the next round of fixtures.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cde0znwjx61o
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Argh that’s annoying for the officials.

We’ve had “3 sub events” in lots of competitions for a long time and I’ve learnt the hard way as AR to always mark my card - and also always remind the bench at the second and third “event”. No surprises!

It is getting more complex though. In most competition rules here with this, there’s also special provision after 3 events for injured GK sub and head injury sub.
 
Bit embarrassing for someone rather senior in FA referee admin!

Not a good afternoon in the Women's game when a National League Cup game was abandoned due to lack of players.
8 turned up, 2 went off injured
 
bester said:
Bit embarrassing for someone rather senior in FA referee admin!

Not a good afternoon in the Women's game when a National League Cup game was abandoned due to lack of players.
8 turned up, 2 went off injured
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Both involving Palace which is a weird coincidence. I'm guessing the wsl will rule a full replay potentially for the subs mixup
 
santa sangria said:
Argh that’s annoying for the officials.
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Embarrassing is a better word to use. They should all take responsibility for it and not just blame the 4O (or AR1). Its not the worst thing a match official can do wrong. Sh!t happens. Learn and move on.
 
They absolutely are, the game will almost certainly have to be replayed. Looks like all 4 are missing from next weekend's appointments.
 
Why wasn't the Everton coach jumping up and down in front of the 4O? Are they able to protest if they didn't raise the issue at the time it happened?
 
socal lurker said:
Why wasn't the Everton coach jumping up and down in front of the 4O? Are they able to protest if they didn't raise the issue at the time it happened?
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It isn't the Everton coach's job to know how many sub windows the opposition have used. There's no protest needed, there's no doubt it happened so the WSL have to make a decision on it.

Also, if I was the manager of a team losing 1-0 with 2 minutes of stoppage time left and I realised the opposition were about to use a 4th sub window I would be keeping my mouth firmly closed.
 
FA Cup game was replayed after they used a 6th sub in the 88th minute when 6-1 up. The team who were wining lost the replayed game.

13 minutes of stoppage time were played in this WSL game, so wasn't like the sub came on for a few seconds
 
bester said:
Bit embarrassing for someone rather senior in FA referee admin!

Not a good afternoon in the Women's game when a National League Cup game was abandoned due to lack of players.
8 turned up, 2 went off injured
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Despite having seen it said several times on social media that Crystal Palace only turned up with 8, a clip that AFC Wimbledon posted of a goal in the first half shows they had 11 on the field at that point!
 
RustyRef said:
It isn't the Everton coach's job to know how many sub windows the opposition have used. There's no protest needed, there's no doubt it happened so the WSL have to make a decision on it.

Also, if I was the manager of a team losing 1-0 with 2 minutes of stoppage time left and I realised the opposition were about to use a 4th sub window I would be keeping my mouth firmly closed.
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Assumptions that if you were a manager you would a) know the competition rules and b) be clever enough to do this 😂
 
Redref34 said:
Assumptions that if you were a manager you would a) know the competition rules and b) be clever enough to do this 😂
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Well when I was a manager I definitely knew the competition rules, I made sure that I did. Probably because I was also a referee at the same time, but I'd like to think even if that wasn't the case I'd have known them.

I would almost certainly have been oblivious to it being their 4th substitution window, but if I was somehow aware and was 1-0 down in added time I would most definitely be keeping schtum.
 
RustyRef said:
It isn't the Everton coach's job to know how many sub windows the opposition have used.
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That all depends on what the completion rules require. I ask the question because the norm in US sports is that a team can’t protests unless the issue is raised during the game so that it can be fixed in real time. That does put the onus on a team to know the rules and object in a timely manner. It prevents “gotcha” protests.
 
socal lurker said:
That all depends on what the completion rules require. I ask the question because the norm in US sports is that a team can’t protests unless the issue is raised during the game so that it can be fixed in real time. That does put the onus on a team to know the rules and object in a timely manner. It prevents “gotcha” protests.
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At lower levels where they use the Standard Code of Rules, protests "relevant to the dimensions of the pitch, goals, flag posts or other facilities" must be lodged with the referee prior to kick-off, any other protests must be lodged within seven days of the match. However, there doesn't appear to be anything in the WSL rules dictating timeframes for protests.
 
ARF said:
At lower levels where they use the Standard Code of Rules, protests "relevant to the dimensions of the pitch, goals, flag posts or other facilities" must be lodged with the referee prior to kick-off, any other protests must be lodged within seven days of the match. However, there doesn't appear to be anything in the WSL rules dictating timeframes for protests.
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Agree, the whole protest requirement in England relates to issues before the game, not what happens during it. I think the assumption is that once the game is started the referee is in control so should make sure law is applied correctly, a fair assumption in my view. Whilst the team will be sanctioned here there is no doubt the match officials are 100% at fault, even if the team requested it there is no way that substitution in a fourth window should have been allowed.
 
It does ask the question how is the 4O recording subs, Graham Scott suggests they would usually have a table with three rows to avoid this issue? Wouldn’t this be standard issue for consistency?

The 4O has a lot of time to check his/her paperwork during the game.
 
DJIC said:
It does ask the question how is the 4O recording subs, Graham Scott suggests they would usually have a table with three rows to avoid this issue? Wouldn’t this be standard issue for consistency?

The 4O has a lot of time to check his/her paperwork during the game.
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One thing I would strongly argue is that at least in the English game at levels where there is a 4O, with 5 subs from 7 or similar and sometimes concussion subs, combined with modern expectations of what the 4O does, there is usually not a lot of time to check paperwork during the game

Typically from around 60 minutes onwards it gets very busy. Multiple subs ; recording time lost ; keeping up with recording discipline ; placating / managing benches ; dealing with subs boards ; trying to juggle the subs board, green card, subs cards and pen, all whilst holding the comms button in to speak with only two hands. Plus expected to contribute to on-field decisions, not just by exception but usually by taking an area of play at corners and similar.

There is no excuse for a fundamental mistake, but every chance of losing track and rare is the occasion in my experience in a busy game when there isn't some need for clarification post match between 4O and referee before Mr Observer /Coach /Performance Developer pops his / her head through the door- often on timings and caution codes
 
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