RefSix

Words......

Sheffields Finest

Maybe I'm foolish, maybe I'm blind!
#21
I never used players first names even if i knew them and didn't like it when they used mine.... I'd say, striker, captain. player of something like that but never their christian name, so of which i knew very well!! I wasn't usually one for letting smart ar3e name calling to players go and especially aimed at me.
 

Sheffields Finest

Maybe I'm foolish, maybe I'm blind!
#24
The word faggot with regard to homosexuality was used as early as 1914, in Jackson and Hellyer's A Vocabulary of Criminal Slang, with Some Examples of Common Usages which listed the following example under the word, drag:[13]
The word was also used by a character in Claude McKay’s 1928 novel Home to Harlem, indicating that it was used during the Harlem Rennaisance
 

JamesL

RefChat Addict
#27
So, in answer to the OP, the article confirms why it is not edited out...

referring to an old Irish slang word meaning a lazy person.

I can think of other examples where use of 1 word which has different meaning would be edited out or not depending on the meaning it was being used.

B*stard is one if one was actually talking about an illegitimate child

Or b*tch if you were actually.talking about a female dog.
 

Ben448844

RefChat Addict
#28
Football matches reflect the society in which they're played. Local church league or academy u15 league, an offensive word is often a rarity and is therefore far more likely to provoke action from the referee. East Manchester Sunday OA League where you're playing in one of the most deprived areas of the country (and I've many scars to prove it!) Then the language throughout the occasion is different, the tone of the occasion is different and the expectation of all involved is different. Now I'm all for referees having the plums to go and apply the law to the letter as I've stated in previous posts, but I can assure you the no ref I ever saw in those league's ever applied the dissent law in the way in which many on here suggest it should be. Nobody ever came close!! It would be absolutely fantastic if refs went into those type of league's and started firing cherrys around for every OFFINABUS incident. Many games would be abandoned and the players would be surprised because it does not happen. Refs soon weigh up how rough it is and their tolerances alter. It's not right, but it's absolutely what happens, always has and probably always will. It's a different world in these types of league's, especially when you go higher or go to more rural league's, it's incomparable.

I'd applaud any ref that went into those league's and gave a red for every time they here words like "faggot", but I was reffed by dozens and dozens of refs and not one ever tried, they accepted 99% of it. Those are the realities I'm afraid whether we like it or not and it would take a referee with plums bigger than any I've ever seen (including myself!) to deal with OFFINABUS correctly.

Don't misunderstand me, I'd love refs to crack down on it in these types of league's but the realities are different.
 
Likes: JH

JH

RefChat Addict
#29
Football matches reflect the society in which they're played. Local church league or academy u15 league, an offensive word is often a rarity and is therefore far more likely to provoke action from the referee. East Manchester Sunday OA League where you're playing in one of the most deprived areas of the country (and I've many scars to prove it!) Then the language throughout the occasion is different, the tone of the occasion is different and the expectation of all involved is different. Now I'm all for referees having the plums to go and apply the law to the letter as I've stated in previous posts, but I can assure you the no ref I ever saw in those league's ever applied the dissent law in the way in which many on here suggest it should be. Nobody ever came close!! It would be absolutely fantastic if refs went into those type of league's and started firing cherrys around for every OFFINABUS incident. Many games would be abandoned and the players would be surprised because it does not happen. Refs soon weigh up how rough it is and their tolerances alter. It's not right, but it's absolutely what happens, always has and probably always will. It's a different world in these types of league's, especially when you go higher or go to more rural league's, it's incomparable.

I'd applaud any ref that went into those league's and gave a red for every time they here words like "faggot", but I was reffed by dozens and dozens of refs and not one ever tried, they accepted 99% of it. Those are the realities I'm afraid whether we like it or not and it would take a referee with plums bigger than any I've ever seen (including myself!) to deal with OFFINABUS correctly.

Don't misunderstand me, I'd love refs to crack down on it in these types of league's but the realities are different.
Completely agree. Also, I don't think suddenly coming into a league with awful language and cracking down on it yourself is brave, I think it is stupid. The only way to crack down on language in leagues that are not used to reds for offensive/abusive etc is a clear intervention from the league and consistency from all referees. The league has to say to the clubs "right, from the start of this season, offensive language will not be tolerated and referees will sanction it with a red card", and tell referees the same. Then as a referee you aren't becoming this martyr and risking your own safety, you're doing what the clubs are beginning to expect each week.
 

QuaverRef

I used to be indecisive but now i'm not so sure
#30
Completely agree. Also, I don't think suddenly coming into a league with awful language and cracking down on it yourself is brave, I think it is stupid. The only way to crack down on language in leagues that are not used to reds for offensive/abusive etc is a clear intervention from the league and consistency from all referees. The league has to say to the clubs "right, from the start of this season, offensive language will not be tolerated and referees will sanction it with a red card", and tell referees the same. Then as a referee you aren't becoming this martyr and risking your own safety, you're doing what the clubs are beginning to expect each week.
I’m curious as to why the league has to tell clubs that offensive language will not be tolerated when that’s already defined within the LOTG. The referees should just enforce it and the FA should ban them, as in every other League. It shouldn’t be down to the league to say ‘oh by the way, referees are going to actually do their job this season’
 

JH

RefChat Addict
#31
I’m curious as to why the league has to tell clubs that offensive language will not be tolerated when that’s already defined within the LOTG. The referees should just enforce it and the FA should ban them, as in every other League. It shouldn’t be down to the league to say ‘oh by the way, referees are going to actually do their job this season’
But they don't, that's the point. There would be a few reds every other game if the law was strictly enforced where I referee. For just one referee to say right, I'll end this, is risking their own safety and reputation.
 

Padfoot

The Enlightened One
#32
So, in answer to the OP, the article confirms why it is not edited out...

referring to an old Irish slang word meaning a lazy person.

I can think of other examples where use of 1 word which has different meaning would be edited out or not depending on the meaning it was being used.

B*stard is one if one was actually talking about an illegitimate child

Or b*tch if you were actually.talking about a female dog.
So, if I am called a faggot on the pitch, am I to enquire of the perpetuator which meaning of the word they are using, before I can decide whether I am offended or not?

Because I seriously doubt I am going to be getting the cherry out for being called lazy.......especially as I might have to move some considerable distance to isolate the player......

But thank you for confirming that we cannot simply dismiss a player for using the word as clearly it has more than one possible meaning.....
 
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one

RefChat Addict
#33
The only way to crack down on language in leagues that are not used to reds for offensive/abusive etc is a clear intervention from the league and consistency from all referees.
This is only a short term solution. Premier league tried this a couple of years ago with dissent and surrounding the referee. It lasted a few months if that.

There is a poor culture of dissent and OFFINABUS ingrained into the game. It takes more than just one lowly league to get rid of it.

It has to come right from the top so the lower players and leagues can see it on TV. But that will never happen. Look what the likes of Ronaldo and Neymar got away with in the world cup.

Even if they enforced it at the top leagues it has to be sustained for a long time and any referee not following protocol dropped. Otherwise we won't see it trickled down to lower leagues.
 

JamesL

RefChat Addict
#34
So, if I am called a faggot on the pitch, am I to enquire of the perpetuator which meaning of the word they are using, before I can decide whether I am offended or not?

Because I seriously doubt I am going to be getting the cherry out for being called lazy.......especially as I might have to move some considerable distance to isolate the player......

But thank you for confirming that we cannot simply dismiss a player for using the word as clearly it has more than one possible meaning.....
Now normally any unacceptable words are replaced by a sound gap......however, to my knowledge, this song has never had that word censored......which begs the question, why?
Well actually no. You missed the point. You wanted to know why it wasnt censored on the radio. The reason cited in the article is why.

Anyone saying the other words I would expect them to have some relevance to the conversation.

On a football pitch I hardly doubt that anyone is going to be talking about a dog or a fatherless child mid-game, nor do I expect a large proportion of players to know that a faggot is something you eat or use as fuel.

Ok they might be saying I am lazy, but I doubt this very much given the ground I cover and effort I put in...

Given the efforts of the FA to stamp out certain prejudices in football, specifically in this case against the LGBT community, any term that is homophobic, just like racism, should be dealt with as OFFINABUS and reporte as so.

Just like if a player tells me they have been racially abused and I havent heard it I would still report it. I would do the same, have done, for homophobic abuse.
 

alexv

Well-Known Member
#35
As a gay man, I personally am not offended by words, least of all faggot - but my high tolerance for offence does not mean it’s not an offensive word; it is. I would implore every ref who hears it used on the pitch to dismiss said player - it’s offensive, insulting and often abusive.

Agree with Padfoot on this one though - have always found it odd that the radio plays it.
I was reading somewhere on a reputable source that in the context of the song it means a ‘lazy person’ although I’m not sure how right that is. If i hear it in a game it’s a red
 

Sheffields Finest

Maybe I'm foolish, maybe I'm blind!
#36
In current news ‘comedian’ Kevin Hart has stepped down from presenting the Oscars next year after historical (10years) tweets were found where he used the Cigetette reference towards someone and Hollywood is offended! It’s a good job the internet wasn’t around 30 years ago or else we’d all probably be in trouble in some way!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-46479017
 
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QuaverRef

I used to be indecisive but now i'm not so sure
#37
So, if I am called a faggot on the pitch, am I to enquire of the perpetuator which meaning of the word they are using, before I can decide whether I am offended or not?

Because I seriously doubt I am going to be getting the cherry out for being called lazy.......especially as I might have to move some considerable distance to isolate the player......

But thank you for confirming that we cannot simply dismiss a player for using the word as clearly it has more than one possible meaning.....
Whilst we are in danger of going down the route of a previous thread here... Can I ask why you keep reiterating the point that YOU have to be offended to send somebody off? I'm not suggesting that you ask every individual spectator/player if they are actually offended, but it's not all about you and only you
 

Ben448844

RefChat Addict
#38
Whilst we are in danger of going down the route of a previous thread here... Can I ask why you keep reiterating the point that YOU have to be offended to send somebody off? I'm not suggesting that you ask every individual spectator/player if they are actually offended, but it's not all about you and only you
Agree to a point, but it's equally mute to ascertain if OTHERS are offended, even if you aren't. The fact that somebody, somewhere might be offended shouldn't necessarily make it OFFINABUS. The majority of these incidents require the context that only being there yourself allows you to make what feels like the correct call. There are so many factors, aside from blatant, obvious and direct OFFINABUS towards individuals, which are easy red's. You will never get uniformity on what constitutes OFFINABUS as we are all different, from different backgrounds and officiating in league's with differing demographics.
 

QuaverRef

I used to be indecisive but now i'm not so sure
#39
Agree to a point, but it's equally mute to ascertain if OTHERS are offended, even if you aren't. The fact that somebody, somewhere might be offended shouldn't necessarily make it OFFINABUS. The majority of these incidents require the context that only being there yourself allows you to make what feels like the correct call. There are so many factors, aside from blatant, obvious and direct OFFINABUS towards individuals, which are easy red's. You will never get uniformity on what constitutes OFFINABUS as we are all different, from different backgrounds and officiating in league's with differing demographics.
I agree, I'm just questioning as to why, in any thread in INOFFABUS is mentioned, his protocol is 'am I offended?' when that shouldn't be the case.
 

RustyRef

Administrator
Staff member
#40
So, if I am called a faggot on the pitch, am I to enquire of the perpetuator which meaning of the word they are using, before I can decide whether I am offended or not?

Because I seriously doubt I am going to be getting the cherry out for being called lazy.......especially as I might have to move some considerable distance to isolate the player......

But thank you for confirming that we cannot simply dismiss a player for using the word as clearly it has more than one possible meaning.....
It does, it also means a kind of stitch. Also could refer to a type of food in Wales and the Midlands.

The same can't be said of mong, so I'd say that kind of blows the whole point of this topic apart.
 
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