The Ref Stop

Ultimatums

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santa sangria

santa sangria

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Luckily I’ve had really good advice before about being careful and avoiding ultimatums: “next time it’s a booking”, “don’t make me have to talk to you again.” Don’t dig your own hole. But this can be difficult with cumulative fouls. Especially deciding whether to signal with “cut the grass” and a cumulative warning.

Yesterday, fairly tough match, away MF picks up 3 fairly small fouls early in the first half. Away are 1-0 down but obviously going to lose, and match control was good. So, at the third foul, I gave him a verbal warning. I did the 1-2-3 finger pointing so everyone could see. But I didn’t cut the grass and I said to him that I’m not going to give an ultimatum in case the next one is trifling much later.

Lo and behold his next foul was trifling, and 50 mins later. The game was effectively over. He turned to me, I said this was that trifling foul, he said “I know you have to book me next time.”

Same match, home attacker late and high on an away defensive clearance, but minimal contact, defender of course squealing to make a meal of it. Attacker immediately very irate as I reached for the card. But I tried to show empathy with him and I said to him, I know the contact was small and he’s made a meal of it, but everyone expects a yellow card here. And he calmed down.

In both these cases I think I was smart in handling the players proactively without escalating unnecessarily. At least it worked yesterday! Maybe I’m a slow learner but it’s only the last two seasons I’ve been smarter and more confident with players. Extra training and video reviews have also helped a lot.
 
The Ref Stop
You have to be very careful with ultimatums. You could tell a player in the 12th minute that their next one is a caution, but they don’t have a next one until 90th minute when the game is 6-0. You have to be even more wary with cutting the grass as an ultimatum, as you are basically telling everyone that their next one is a caution. When you’re having a chat with a player, I’d personally not let everyone else know what is being said. Plus, it often doesn’t really matter what you actually say to the player, as long as you don’t make a promise/ultimatum. My personal favourite was asking them what they’re having for their tea. Always throws them off, but looked to everyone else you were giving them a telling off.

‘Offer an ultimatum without actually offering an ultimatum’ is the advice I was given.
 
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Runner Ref said:
You have to be very careful with ultimatums. You could tell a player in the 12th minute that their next one is a caution, but they don’t have a next one until 90th minute when the game is 6-0. You have to be even more wary with cutting the grass as an ultimatum, as you are basically telling everyone that their next one is a caution. When you’re having a chat with a player, I’d personally not let everyone else know what is being said. Plus, it often doesn’t really matter what you actually say to the player, as long as you don’t make a promise/ultimatum. My personal favourite was asking them what they’re having for their tea. Always throws them off, but looked to everyone else you were giving them a telling off.

‘Offer an ultimatum without actually offering an ultimatum’ is the advice I was given.
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Great advice.

With players that need a ceremonial warning but won’t calm down, I do similar: look at me, this isn’t for us, it’s for everyone else here to see, calm down, let’s get on with the football.
 
Runner Ref said:
You have to be very careful with ultimatums. You could tell a player in the 12th minute that their next one is a caution, but they don’t have a next one until 90th minute when the game is 6-0. You have to be even more wary with cutting the grass as an ultimatum, as you are basically telling everyone that their next one is a caution. When you’re having a chat with a player, I’d personally not let everyone else know what is being said. Plus, it often doesn’t really matter what you actually say to the player, as long as you don’t make a promise/ultimatum. My personal favourite was asking them what they’re having for their tea. Always throws them off, but looked to everyone else you were giving them a telling off.

‘Offer an ultimatum without actually offering an ultimatum’ is the advice I was given.
Click to expand...
santa sangria said:
Luckily I’ve had really good advice before about being careful and avoiding ultimatums: “next time it’s a booking”, “don’t make me have to talk to you again.” Don’t dig your own hole. But this can be difficult with cumulative fouls. Especially deciding whether to signal with “cut the grass” and a cumulative warning.

Yesterday, fairly tough match, away MF picks up 3 fairly small fouls early in the first half. Away are 1-0 down but obviously going to lose, and match control was good. So, at the third foul, I gave him a verbal warning. I did the 1-2-3 finger pointing so everyone could see. But I didn’t cut the grass and I said to him that I’m not going to give an ultimatum in case the next one is trifling much later.

Lo and behold his next foul was trifling, and 50 mins later. The game was effectively over. He turned to me, I said this was that trifling foul, he said “I know you have to book me next time.”

Same match, home attacker late and high on an away defensive clearance, but minimal contact, defender of course squealing to make a meal of it. Attacker immediately very irate as I reached for the card. But I tried to show empathy with him and I said to him, I know the contact was small and he’s made a meal of it, but everyone expects a yellow card here. And he calmed down.

In both these cases I think I was smart in handling the players proactively without escalating unnecessarily. At least it worked yesterday! Maybe I’m a slow learner but it’s only the last two seasons I’ve been smarter and more confident with players. Extra training and video reviews have also helped a lot.
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Certainly needs some thinking about with what you did and the views of Runner Ref. I gave some advice to a Referee a week ago about an arm signal to indicate ‘no more’, but from these threads I will give the matter some more thought.
 
santa sangria said:
I said to him that I’m not going to give an ultimatum in case the next one is trifling much later.
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For me this is also something I won't tell. It gives them reason to argue if you do decide its not trifling. Or even it is on the trifling side game temperature means a cautionnis appropriate.

It is less about not giving 'ultimatums' for me and more about not cornering yourself or limiting your own options.
 
one said:
For me this is also something I won't tell. It gives them reason to argue if you do decide its not trifling. Or even it is on the trifling side game temperature means a cautionnis appropriate.

It is less about not giving 'ultimatums' for me and more about not cornering yourself or limiting your own options.
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Overall, I tend to agree with you, though I believe there are still a few occasions when a form of ultimatum is appropriate & I mean more by body language/arm signal than by words. Persistently infringing the Laws of the Game is all to do with the cumulation of trivial penal offences, so although a stepped approach would be appropriate, there comes a time when any type of offence is one too many, including the trivialist of trivial.
 
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DavidObs said:
Overall, I tend to agree with you, though I believe there are still a few occasions when a form of ultimatum is appropriate & I mean more by body language/arm signal than by words. Persistently infringing the Laws of the Game is all to do with the cumulation of trivial penal offences, so although a stepped approach would be appropriate, there comes a time when any type of offence is one too many, including the trivialist of trivial.
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Agreed. And match context is so important. In a harder match, if a player’s say… third foul is on 60 mins and it’s close to yellow, counting 1-2-3 and cutting that grass might be exactly what that moment needs.
 
JamesL said:
"you run the risk..."
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That's 3 fouls now player (in last 20 mins), next one you run the risk of a card coming out.

Means you can let them off with a couple of careless in the second half when the opposition manager has stopped counting.
 
One nitpick. I'd choose s word other than trifling, as trifling is traditionally used to mean a foul too small to warrant calling--from the long period of time that the Laws referred to not calling fouls that were trifling or doubtful.

I do strongly support the avoidance of ultimatums. they have a nasty way of backfiring.
 
I was very nervous in one of my first games. I meant to say you won't get away with any more of those after a borderline caution challenge came in, but I ended up saying I can only let you have one more of those. At which point of of the nearby opposition players asked if that meant everyone else had got two of them left 😂

Agree with the general sentiment of not giving ultimatums, it just backs you into a corner. Same as when referees used to lecture teams before the game saying they would send off anyone who swore. It caused them so many problems, as the very second someone swore and the referee didn't act, perhaps because he hadn't heard it, the other team would be all over him demanding a red card.
 
socal lurker said:
One nitpick. I'd choose s word other than trifling, as trifling is traditionally used to mean a foul too small to warrant calling--from the long period of time that the Laws referred to not calling fouls that were trifling or doubtful.

I do strongly support the avoidance of ultimatums. they have a nasty way of backfiring.
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Agreed on trifling. Not a good word for players.
 
What about, 'You have 8 seconds and it's a CK after a 5 second visual countdown'?
For anyone raising an eyebrow at ultimatums. Might work, significant potential gain but not without significant risk
 
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Big Cat said:
What about, 'You have 8 seconds and it's a CK after a 5 second visual countdown'?
For anyone raising an eyebrow at ultimatums. Might work, significant potential gain but not without significant risk
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Not sure your point. By Law, the GK is getting more time with the change than the current Law. The old (current) Law wasn’t called because the punishment was too harsh (and a mess to manage).
 
Expanding on my original post, in general it is not a good idea to tell players what you will or will not do for subjective decisions. It either limits your options when the time comes or you'd have to go against your own word.

When sin bins came in, for a little while, in the pre-match, I used to tell the captains what my 'tollerance level' was for dissent. Very quickly learnt it was a bad idea and did away with it.
 
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