U14 boys red card

[Joshref]

There are two teams. You'll receive as much abuse for sending off as you would for not. I'd argue probably get more abuse for not sending off, in my experience.

I agree with you on every other point btw, a red card is the right option. I would get absolutely no enjoyment from showing a red card for DOGSO to a 13 year old in the last minute of the game but the law is the law.

However I don’t necessarily agree with this point. In my experience of refereeing, playing and coaching youth football, managers dont want to see a red card for technical offences. They’re happy to see cards especially for bad challenges. After all in my opinion the most important thing in youth football is keeping the players safe. But they don’t tend to want to see a red, and they’re not too bothered if it’s not shown. You should still show a cherry, I’m just warning of the consequences

In fact, story time from last season for my cousins U14 game I was watching, where home team are 2-0 up with 10 minutes to go. Corner kick, away player handballs it to stop it being 3-0. Clearly deliberate, clear DOGSO, clear pen, red card issued by the young ref, only for home manager to request it to stay 11v11. He argued there was 10 minutes left, and they were about to go 3-0 up, so a red wasn’t fair. With home manager and away manager not wanting him to go off, and the referee probably club appointed and knowing the home manager, he bowed to the pressure and rescinded the red.

As all these stories go, guess what happened. Probably the worst scenario for the ref, which always seems to happen. Home team missed the pen, away team counter attack and score, and guess who gets a last minute equaliser for the away team. Of all the players on the pitch, of course it had to be the one that should’ve been off. No idea what was said to the ref after the match but I bet home manager regretted blocking the sending off now

 

[ChasObserverRefDeveloper]

Neither of us where there so we don’t know what wipe out means. If keeper flew out studs showing and snapped attacker in 2, then yes get cards out and Ive never had a coach complain/abuse because I didn’t send a child off. No grassroots coach wants a kid sending off. you’re trying to trivialise the seriousness of the current situation at GR by constantly only saying shouted at, we both know it can get a lot worse than that. I know the laws but I’m never going to agree with you on this, as i think it’s irresponsible to tell a new young ref to ref exactly the same way as an experienced adult ref. In an ideal world they could, if any of them had mentors, which they don’t or representatives from the clubs at their games, which they don’t, then yes ref exactly to the law.

I’m not saying any of the comments are wrong but I’m just not sure people on here realise what young refs have to put up with and they won’t be there when that ref gets physically abused. I’ve never had a coach scream for a player to be sent off. I’m not talking about buckling to pressure or not giving a red card for a serious challenge. I just said in the OP (if it was for dogso and not for snapping attacker) that the red card would have achieved nothing but abuse for a young ref. I was just talking about him managing and protecting himself.

Some of us "on here" know a fair bit about young referees and their issues.
For example, I am a mentor for newly qualified referees.
As a Referee Developer (tutor/instructor) I have been actively involved in courses for new referees which have included 450 Under-16's in the last 15 months.
We always cover the differences between mini soccer, younger youth football (11 and 12 age groups) and those refereeing in youth football with players aged 13 to 15.
We explain that the referee cannot tell a coach to substitute a player, but can say (e. g) "Your number 6 is getting close to a card, Dave" when a player gets heated but is not yet at the card stage.
We explain that if a player commits a sending off offence (e. g. a clear DOGSO) it's a red card.
The OP sounded like a clear DOGSO.

 

[Kes]

Neither of us where there so we don’t know what wipe out means. If keeper flew out studs showing and snapped attacker in 2, then yes get cards out and Ive never had a coach complain/abuse because I didn’t send a child off. No grassroots coach wants a kid sending off. you’re trying to trivialise the seriousness of the current situation at GR by constantly only saying shouted at, we both know it can get a lot worse than that. I know the laws but I’m never going to agree with you on this, as i think it’s irresponsible to tell a new young ref to ref exactly the same way as an experienced adult ref. In an ideal world they could, if any of them had mentors, which they don’t or representatives from the clubs at their games, which they don’t, then yes ref exactly to the law.

I’m not saying any of the comments are wrong but I’m just not sure people on here realise what young refs have to put up with and they won’t be there when that ref gets physically abused. I’ve never had a coach scream for a player to be sent off. I’m not talking about buckling to pressure or not giving a red card for a serious challenge. I just said in the OP (if it was for dogso and not for snapping attacker) that the red card would have achieved nothing but abuse for a young ref. I was just talking about him managing and protecting himself.

If a young referee operates to the LOTG then he's protecting himself. Every time.

If abuse becomes intolerable then he protects himself by abandoning the match and walking away.

Pandering to the whims of coaches/players isn't the way.

 

[socal lurker]

I’m not saying any of the comments are wrong but I’m just not sure people on here realise what young refs have to put up with and they won’t be there when that ref gets physically abused.

I was staying out of this, but I’m a bit tired of the “I’m the only one that cares about the kid ref” high horse. Balderdash.get that judgmental crap out of here, as it has nothing to do with this discussion—not agreeing with you has nothing to do with not supporting youth refs. I was the kid ref (I started when I was 11 decades ago.) And I regularly teach and support youth refs.

I’m not going to undermine youth refs by telling them. It to make the right calls. Our colleague came on here with a good question about how to think of DOGSO in a 14U match. And I’m confident that he has the fortitude and ability to manage that.

 

[Tom_R]

Thank you for your replies. From this I have learned that I have made the wrong decision and should have given the red no matter what the age. I am a 15 yr old referee so I learn from my mistakes and move on to the next game. Thanks for all the replies again

I'm 15 too I moved onto a new league at the start of the season (fresh start). Previously I had trouble with confidence and cards but this season I changed it and I've been dishing out cards left right and centre! Sometimes I think it's tough to control some players as a young referee so big calls with cards show everyone what you're all about. For me I have no leniency with cards for 11 a side but a bit more as players get younger.

 

[socal lurker]

I'm 15 too I moved onto a new league at the start of the season (fresh start). Previously I had trouble with confidence and cards but this season I changed it and I've been dishing out cards left right and centre! Sometimes I think it's tough to control some players as a young referee so big calls with cards show everyone what you're all about. For me I have no leniency with cards for 11 a side but a bit more as players get younger.

Nice post. And it shows a natural progression. Most new refs (not just youth refs, but adults, too) take time to get comfortable with cards. Until you've given a few (as a youth or adult), it can feel a bit scary. As you get some seasoning, you get more comfortable, both with recognizing what should be carded, and in executing it. Most new refs spend some time thinking after games, "hmm, maybe I should have carded that"--and usually if they are musing about it, the answer is yes. No new ref should be overly concerned about missing cards--as you gain experience, they will get easier to identify and give, just @Tom_R is describing.

 

[RustyRef]

Neither of us where there so we don’t know what wipe out means. If keeper flew out studs showing and snapped attacker in 2, then yes get cards out and Ive never had a coach complain/abuse because I didn’t send a child off. No grassroots coach wants a kid sending off. you’re trying to trivialise the seriousness of the current situation at GR by constantly only saying shouted at, we both know it can get a lot worse than that. I know the laws but I’m never going to agree with you on this, as i think it’s irresponsible to tell a new young ref to ref exactly the same way as an experienced adult ref. In an ideal world they could, if any of them had mentors, which they don’t or representatives from the clubs at their games, which they don’t, then yes ref exactly to the law.

I’m not saying any of the comments are wrong but I’m just not sure people on here realise what young refs have to put up with and they won’t be there when that ref gets physically abused. I’ve never had a coach scream for a player to be sent off. I’m not talking about buckling to pressure or not giving a red card for a serious challenge. I just said in the OP (if it was for dogso and not for snapping attacker) that the red card would have achieved nothing but abuse for a young ref. I was just talking about him managing and protecting himself.

This is a refereeing forum so the replies are of course going to give the correct answer to the question. If it is a red card it is a red card whether the referee is 15, 55 or 95, the age of the referee is neither here nor there. Whether the age of the players makes a difference or not is an entirely different debate, but I don't think anyone believes that debate extends to 13 and 14 year olds playing 11-a-side football.

I was a RefsSec for a long time, and am still on the league committee and see all low marks reports. Far more relate to red cards not given than red cards given, in not giving a clear red card you are just enraging the opposition team and are no less likely to get grief than you would if you'd sent off.

 

[Southerner In The North]

From what OP said it sounded a lot like had to be there so thinks it’s harsh to be slamming people either way.

 

[MumRef]

I actually had that today in my U14 game, 5 minutes to go, away team back against the wall at 4-2 up but counter attack, keeper comes storming out (for some reason defenders would’ve eventually got there), striker knocks it past keeper and keeper carelessly brings him down. Clear foul.

Thankfully for the keeper, his defenders had got back and won the ball otherwise I’d have had a tough call to make. If defenders hadn’t have been there he’d have likely been off. Away team scored from it and then scored again to make it 6-2.

After the match away manager came up to ask me why it wasn’t a red and I explained it was due to the fact two defenders were they. He explained he didn’t have a problem with it and was only asking because a ref had given them a red card for DOGSO the other week and he wanted to appeal it because it wasn’t malicious.

Hang on, I'm confused. Why did the fact defenders were there make a difference to the red card sanction for the keeper's offence? Asking from a position of ignorance rather than passive aggressive

 

[RustyRef]

Hang on, I'm confused. Why did the fact defenders were there make a difference to the red card sanction for the keeper's offence? Asking from a position of ignorance rather than passive aggressive

Because the number of and location of covering defenders is a factor on whether DOGSO applies, so I'm guessing that Joshref felt that the defenders would have got to the ball before the attacker had he not been fouled. It becomes a little trickier when the keeper commits the foul, as obviously any covering defenders can't use their hands.

 

[JamesL]

Hang on, I'm confused. Why did the fact defenders were there make a difference to the red card sanction for the keeper's offence? Asking from a position of ignorance rather than passive aggressive

Dogso has 4 Criteria to be considered.

Sounds like this one would have failed on, potentially, 2.

Control of ball or likelihood to regain control and/or number and location of defenders.

 

[Joshref]

Hang on, I'm confused. Why did the fact defenders were there make a difference to the red card sanction for the keeper's offence? Asking from a position of ignorance rather than passive aggressive

Heavy touch past keeper, keeper brings him down, covering defender had actually got to the ball by the time I blew, which helped sell the decision imo. Had it been a more controlled touch so it was clear attacker would’ve got there instantly had he not been fouled (especially because as Rusty says defenders can’t use their hands) or if defenders hadn’t got there then there would have been more appeals for a red I think.

Thankfully for the keeper, his defenders kept him on the pitch. Im not sure the keeper knew they were there though he definitely looked panicked when he bought him down. Keeper didn’t mean to foul him though I don’t think, as I said earlier just carelessly bought him down, which is what stopped him from getting a yellow as well (although I could’ve potentially got him for SPA but once again the defenders presence made no card an easy sell)

 

[one]

Neither of us where there so we don’t know what wipe out means. If keeper flew out studs showing and snapped attacker in 2, then yes get cards out and Ive never had a coach complain/abuse because I didn’t send a child off. No grassroots coach wants a kid sending off. you’re trying to trivialise the seriousness of the current situation at GR by constantly only saying shouted at, we both know it can get a lot worse than that. I know the laws but I’m never going to agree with you on this, as i think it’s irresponsible to tell a new young ref to ref exactly the same way as an experienced adult ref. In an ideal world they could, if any of them had mentors, which they don’t or representatives from the clubs at their games, which they don’t, then yes ref exactly to the law.

I’m not saying any of the comments are wrong but I’m just not sure people on here realise what young refs have to put up with and they won’t be there when that ref gets physically abused. I’ve never had a coach scream for a player to be sent off. I’m not talking about buckling to pressure or not giving a red card for a serious challenge. I just said in the OP (if it was for dogso and not for snapping attacker) that the red card would have achieved nothing but abuse for a young ref. I was just talking about him managing and protecting himself.

Late to this party, but I hope you are not saying what comes across to me.

As written it sounds like you are saying the more intimidating and abusive a team, fans or team officials are, young referees should give more decisions their way so they won't get abused.

I also don't agree with sending off for dogso achievs nothing. At the very least it achieves the same goals that having 11v11 on a full size field (instead small sided) and keeping record of scores and a comp table. If they are old enough to accpt the fact that they can be last on the table with a GD of -xx then they are old enough to accept they can be sent off for dogso. There has to be some age to understand and learn about some unpleasant facts of life, and in this case it seems to have been decided the age they go to 11v11 with a comp table.

 

[davlon]

There has to be some age to understand and learn about some unpleasant facts of life, and in this case it seems to have been decided the age they go to 11v11 with a comp table.

I agree. If they can understand the intricacies of offside, they must be able to understand DOGSO. If they don't, then that's partly on the coaches (who should then pay the fine, IMO ).