Junior/Youth U13 Game Incidents

[Josh the referee]

Refereed an U13s game which is probably the worst game I've ever had to referee.

I realise once I'm appointed that I've sent the same manager off last season for 2 yellows, well deserved and I was happy with. I had a gut feeling that something would happen but got 62 minutes through the game and I was proved right.

62nd minute, penalty awarded to the Away Team, cue drama beginning. Surrounded by the Home Team and whilst they all disagree and everyone has their opinion, not actually a lot of complaints that were valid. What's people's best way of dismissing a crowd? And any other way I could've dealt with this?

I go to speak to the player that committed the foul, he says something from less than 2 metres away and loud enough to be heard from a little way away so he earns himself a red for offinabus.

Next 13 mins of the game is a rollercoaster to say the least. I realise now that maybe I should've tried to take control of the game by literally stopping at every opportunity, but its hard when you have a team losing 4-3 and one wanting to slow the game down.

A few players warned after some tackles and I bring the game to a conclusion, with the home team winning 4-3.

Got my stuff which was opposite the managers and spectators who were on the same side (3G Cage) and went to walk off the pitch. Get some praise from the Away Team parents who have just lost the game but get absolutely abused by the Home Team parents who have just won the game.

I get asked by one parent why I sent the player off and I just ignore him, not wanting to engage in a conversation about this and then get followed for a bit and shouted at by another spectator. Shortest possible summary of what happened.

Definitely felt intimidated but I apparently "I had it out for the team", think it was more like they had it out for me

Report sent to the CFA, hopefully something is done, especially because I'm 15 as well (basically 16, only a few weeks away).

Tried to stay as professional as possible but I don't really know what else I could've done hence for the post. Hope some people are able to offer me some advice about the incidents and to take away from this game.

 

[Tealeaf]

Josh,

First things first. From your description, you’re pretty much on point. Take that away from this.

On the penalty incident, I’m pretty much going to repeat what I said on another thread. Blow the whistle, hard. Stop it all in its tracks. You’ve made the calm and make it clear you aren’t changing your mind. A few ears ring? Tough you-know-what.

If you’re followed, consider a caution. Anybody else wants to follow they’re welcome.

For the rest, I hope you’ve reported exactly the words used by the parents. That adds weight to your report and is fundamental to ensuring this is dealt with properly.

Do reach out to county FA mentors, RA or people on here if you need anything more.

 

[Josh the referee]

Josh,

First things first. From your description, you’re pretty much on point. Take that away from this.

On the penalty incident, I’m pretty much going to repeat what I said on another thread. Blow the whistle, hard. Stop it all in its tracks. You’ve made the calm and make it clear you aren’t changing your mind. A few ears ring? Tough you-know-what.

If you’re followed, consider a caution. Anybody else wants to follow they’re welcome.

For the rest, I hope you’ve reported exactly the words used by the parents. That adds weight to your report and is fundamental to ensuring this is dealt with properly.

Do reach out to county FA mentors, RA or people on here if you need anything more.

Thanks very much for that and I think that's something particularly I need to learn to do a lot more of, just blowing the whistle and watch the crowds disperse.

 

[RustyRef]

It is very difficult for young referees, but you need to make sure you aren't surrounded. Take a few steps back and make it very clear the next person to get close to you is getting a sin bin. If they don't listen to that threat carry it out, and then again for the next person, and the next, and the next, until the message lands. When I came through as a new referee there is no way 12 year olds would behave like this, but I appreciate we are in an entirely different society these days.

What happened after the game is unforgivable. For all it might sound like I'm being patronising, you are a child, and adults having a go at you just isn't acceptable in any way, shape or form. Glad that you have reported it, and I would hope a big heavy book will be thrown. I observed a 16 year old referee at the weekend on an open age game and the abuse he got was disgusting. One of the players then confronted me after the game saying things like I hope you are reporting him, and I hope you make sure he never holds a whistle again. I almost caused a riot by telling him that I would be reporting both teams for what were very clear breaches of child protection regulations, within a minute I was surrounded by players and officials from both teams. The fact I had an FA badge on seemed to make the few sensible people call the neanderthals away, but it just shows how difficult it is for referees on their own, especially young referees.

 

[ChasObserverRefDeveloper]

Thanks very much for that and I think that's something particularly I need to learn to do a lot more of, just blowing the whistle and watch the crowds disperse.

Firstly, very well handled.
As well as a big whistle, create space by stepping back a few paces with an open hands gesture to keep players away. If there is a white line available within a couple of metres, use it as the point beyond which they get a sin bin or yellow card. Once it settles down, call the offender to you. Take your time.
Report the situation to the league as well as the disciplinary reports going in to the County FA. They need to be aware of the way you were treated.
Happy birthday a few days early!

 

[DazN]

Sounds like you did everything right. Well done. There's no excuse to verbally abuse any age referee, but a 15 year old? I hope your CFA make an example of them.

 

[lincs22]

I almost caused a riot by telling him that I would be reporting both teams for what were very clear breaches of child protection regulations, within a minute I was surrounded by players and officials from both teams. The fact I had an FA badge on seemed to make the few sensible people call the neanderthals away, but it just shows how difficult it is for referees on their own, especially young referees.

I am surprised that somebody with our experience engaged with the players so quickly after the end of the match. Where I have had comments made, I simply thank them for their opinion and move on. When everybody has moved on, I may speak with the manager / a sensible person and say that the referee was under 18, so the abuse he got was a safeguarding issue, and I would be reporting their club to the CFA myself.

PS - I don't wear a FA badge outfit, but I do have an FA badged book. The clubs also know I am league official, so the league committee would extract punishment in our own way.... Long trips in the winter for matches, strong referees on their matches...

 

[DJIC]

Well done, sounds like you handled a very difficult situation very well. Not engaging with parents is recommende.

Agree with suggestion/advice given.

You say you went to talk to the player who committed the foul for the penalty, was this absolutely necessary, was the penalty award sufficient? If you don’t need further sanction avoid aggrieved players. As advised head to a neutral area as quick as possible, usually on goal line on intersection of goal area where players would not expect to be, making it clear you don’t want players in your personal space or you will sanction.

 

[RustyRef]

I am surprised that somebody with our experience engaged with the players so quickly after the end of the match. Where I have had comments made, I simply thank them for their opinion and move on. When everybody has moved on, I may speak with the manager / a sensible person and say that the referee was under 18, so the abuse he got was a safeguarding issue, and I would be reporting their club to the CFA myself.

PS - I don't wear a FA badge outfit, but I do have an FA badged book. The clubs also know I am league official, so the league committee would extract punishment in our own way.... Long trips in the winter for matches, strong referees on their matches...

I normally ignore them, but he got under my skin and the comments he was making were so ridiculous I couldn't stop myself. The irony is this was in a league that prides itself on it's sporting conduct, where they the home team have to provide hospitality for the away club and match officials after the game. "Playing in the Spirt of Football, Promoting Fair Play and Respect for All", I don't think so, certainly not in this game anyway.

 

[Josh the referee]

Well done, sounds like you handled a very difficult situation very well. Not engaging with parents is recommende.

Agree with suggestion/advice given.

You say you went to talk to the player who committed the foul for the penalty, was this absolutely necessary, was the penalty award sufficient? If you don’t need further sanction avoid aggrieved players. As advised head to a neutral area as quick as possible, usually on goal line on intersection of goal area where players would not expect to be, making it clear you don’t want players in your personal space or you will sanction.

I know that this was my biggest mistake, I should've moved away from the penalty area after awarding it.

I was more or less on the edge of the penalty area because there was a scrap for the ball in and around the 6 yard area.

Probably didn't need to speak to the player and he had more or less said what he said and walked away before I had a chance to talk to him.

Appreciate the advice though and it's all a learning curve for me. Happy with the red I gave and hopefully they actually do something about the spectator incidents. There's a little bit of hope within me.

 

[Josh the referee]

Hope this thread isn't too old to revive, shows you how long CFA's take to investigate issues

I've potentially got a hearing next week regarding the incident as they've raised a charge against the Home Team in question.

I've been told I have to have an adult with me as I'm U18 and been sent a guide to how these hearings are suppose to work. It's my first one so any words of advice on how this should run and what I might have to do?

 

[ChasObserverRefDeveloper]

Hope this thread isn't too old to revive, shows you how long CFA's take to investigate issues

I've potentially got a hearing next week regarding the incident as they've raised a charge against the Home Team in question.

I've been told I have to have an adult with me as I'm U18 and been sent a guide to how these hearings are suppose to work. It's my first one so any words of advice on how this should run and what I might have to do?

Is it online, rather than in person? Most are nowadays.
If you need someone to accompany you the local RA or the League should help.
You will probably be asked whether you have anything to add to your report. The suggested answer is "No, thank you"
You will hear the club version of the incident, and as our late Queen memorably said "Recollections may vary"
Stay calm. You have done your bit.
Let us know how it goes.
Good luck for a smooth evening.

 

[Josh the referee]

Is it online, rather than in person? Most are nowadays.
If you need someone to accompany you the local RA or the League should help.
You will probably be asked whether you have anything to add to your report. The suggested answer is "No, thank you"
You will hear the club version of the incident, and as our late Queen memorably said "Recollections may vary"
Stay calm. You have done your bit.
Let us know how it goes.
Good luck for a smooth evening.

Yeah it's online thankfully.

Just can't wait to see what the club have to say.

I'm weirdly nervous about it because it's obviously the first time I've had to do something like this

 

[ChasObserverRefDeveloper]

Yeah it's online thankfully.

Just can't wait to see what the club have to say.

I'm weirdly nervous about it because it's obviously the first time I've had to do something like this

Don't worry. There is a possibility that the club will not remember the full truth but you have done your part. Just stay calm, be honest, and afterwards you may or may not learn the outcome.

 

[Josh the referee]

Don't worry. There is a possibility that the club will not remember the full truth but you have done your part. Just stay calm, be honest, and afterwards you may or may not learn the outcome.

Cool, thank you!!

 

[RustyRef]

The key thing is to not get flustered, remember that you are absolutely not on trial, you are purely there as a witness. They will ask if you have anything to add to your report, the answer here can only be no, if you add anything then it will immediately be seized on as to how you can add something that wasn't in the report.

The team or player can then ask you questions, but only through the commission chair. So if they say something like "you said that our player punched their player but he didn't", just refer back to your report and say "as per my report I saw Hx punch Ax". "As per my report" is the key phrase, you don't want to say anything that strays away from what you have written. And I would say don't worry, more often than not the clubs and players tie themselves in knots, give completely contradictory evidence, and make a complete arse of it.

 

[lincs22]

The key thing is to not get flustered, remember that you are absolutely not on trial, you are purely there as a witness. They will ask if you have anything to add to your report, the answer here can only be no, if you add anything then it will immediately be seized on as to how you can add something that wasn't in the report.

The team or player can then ask you questions, but only through the commission chair. So if they say something like "you said that our player punched their player but he didn't", just refer back to your report and say "as per my report I saw Hx punch Ax". "As per my report" is the key phrase, you don't want to say anything that strays away from what you have written. And I would say don't worry, more often than not the clubs and players tie themselves in knots, give completely contradictory evidence, and make a complete arse of it.

Agreed, in most cases on their their own players f""" up their arguement. Just have a copy of your report to hand, and refer to it.
The only thing you may be asked, which is not in your report, is how far away where you from the incident? If so, the answer is "I was ** yards away, and as my report says I saw ...."

 

[Josh the referee]

Hearing done last week (finally!!)

Charge was proven, which is always good to hear that the club will face a sanction for their spectators behaviour.

Currently waiting on the written reasons which apparently haven't been provided to the county that investigated the case as of yet, been 8 working days so seems a little long. Is that usual in anyone else's experience? Maybe it's because I'm under 16, who knows!!

UPDATE: Written Reasons finally received!!

 

[Gabriel]

As a 15 year old referee, when I reported someone for abuse and threatening/abusive behaviour towards a match official earlier this year, it took them 2 months to even get the evidence. Then, when I was told they had been fined (clearly not enough in my opinion), I was never provided with the written reasons which I found odd. I was never called to a hearing either, which was even more unusual. I found it ridiculous in this case also that they didn't believe this was a safeguarding issue.

 

[Wolf_Ref]

It is very difficult for young referees, but you need to make sure you aren't surrounded. Take a few steps back and make it very clear the next person to get close to you is getting a sin bin. If they don't listen to that threat carry it out, and then again for the next person, and the next, and the next, until the message lands. When I came through as a new referee there is no way 12 year olds would behave like this, but I appreciate we are in an entirely different society these days.

What happened after the game is unforgivable. For all it might sound like I'm being patronising, you are a child, and adults having a go at you just isn't acceptable in any way, shape or form. Glad that you have reported it, and I would hope a big heavy book will be thrown. I observed a 16 year old referee at the weekend on an open age game and the abuse he got was disgusting. One of the players then confronted me after the game saying things like I hope you are reporting him, and I hope you make sure he never holds a whistle again. I almost caused a riot by telling him that I would be reporting both teams for what were very clear breaches of child protection regulations, within a minute I was surrounded by players and officials from both teams. The fact I had an FA badge on seemed to make the few sensible people call the neanderthals away, but it just shows how difficult it is for referees on their own, especially young referees.

This is excellent advice.

Walk back and sin bin the loudest who walks towards you.

Some referees will say that it is ‘weak’ or ‘bad game management’ if you sin bin… they are wrong. Some games need them.

Congratulations for not being last weeks referee. If a player is old enough to use offensive/insulting or abusive language, they are old enough to learn the consequences.

As for abuse from spectators, do put in an extraordinary report in. Might not result in a fine, but will result in the offending team to waste time at least defending themselves.

Well done - the tough games are the best ones to learn from - albeit, the ones that test our love for the sport!!