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TOT v LIV

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Worth noting that rugby TMOs always end by confirming the restart, whatever the decision or circumstances. That seems an easy fix.

Tackles like Curtis Jones’s seem to be going through a similar evolution to head contact in rugby: from intent-based (careless, reckless, excessive force) to consequence-based (where did he make contact, is there any mitigation). Similar idea across rugby and football that the tackler has a duty of care towards the tackled player.

Slightly tougher to get right, but a similar protocol (start with red if there’s studs-up contact on the shin or above, mitigate down if appropriate) might simplify the process.
Except that type of challenge really should be SFP. A straight leg with flush contact on the inside of the leg should be a send off, but in our age of “keep it 11 v 11” hasn’t been. Perhaps we are moving back to this type of challenge being properly sanctioned.
 
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I do think making his apologies so public is not helping mind, the Wolves one is a bad error but it's a subjective decision, that was throwing officials under the bus unfairly I feel. The only time he should be apologising to clubs is when factual errors such as this occurs which has happened at least 2 other times which is far too many.
I’ve thought this before. In a case like this where it is very obviously clear that an error in communication or procedure has occurred a public apology is fair enough and probably needed. When it is a subjective decision that the media don’t agree with, there’s no need to publicly criticise officials. In private whatever needs to be said can be said, however apologising for controversial and subjectively ‘wrong’ decisions will likely make VARs less willing to intervene, (and is maybe even one of the reasons there’s been accusations of VARs being less willing to challenge more experienced on-field referees). Apologising for everything also removes value from apologies such as the most recent one - it now feels routine rather than a special acknowledgement that a serious error has been made.
 
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Now being reported in The Sunday Times and The Independent, as predicted. These officials should have been nowhere near games this weekend, and it very questionable whether it should be allowed anyway. Howard Webb still has a lot of questions to answer, as the explanation is dubious at best, and an apology isn’t good enough. I hope somebody calls for an independent inquiry into the whole mess, as the credibility of officials is now being called into question, and not just the Twitter fanbase.
 
Not saying it's right or wrong but up here John Beaton refereed Livingston v Celtic less than 48hrs after refereeing a Europa League game in Azerbaijan
 
He hasn't "got away with it". He will get a 7.9, along with VAR and AVAR.
"He'll get a 7.9" is meaningless and insufficient, particularly for the VAR.

This is also the VAR who made a mess of the offside tech and failed to disallow a clearly offside goal in the Arsenal Liverpool game last season. He's clearly at best just not competent in this role and should be taken off VAR duties indefinitely.
 
Except that type of challenge really should be SFP. A straight leg with flush contact on the inside of the leg should be a send off, but in our age of “keep it 11 v 11” hasn’t been. Perhaps we are moving back to this type of challenge being properly sanctioned.
Oh yep - fully agree. Wasn’t arguing that Jones should’ve been mitigated down, just for clear protocols.
 
Not saying it's right or wrong but up here John Beaton refereed Livingston v Celtic less than 48hrs after refereeing a Europa League game in Azerbaijan
Fair point, as the 6hr UAE is a bit longer I think, But Times journalist like Martin Ziegler are being mischievous with their line of attack, about them being tired. They know full well, people reading their articles and tweets will link the UAE trip and the City group. Howard Webb should have also seen this coming.
 
"He'll get a 7.9" is meaningless and insufficient, particularly for the VAR.

This is also the VAR who made a mess of the offside tech and failed to disallow a clearly offside goal in the Arsenal Liverpool game last season. He's clearly at best just not competent in this role and should be taken off VAR duties indefinitely.
In my defence I meant a maximum of 7.9. That's just how the marking works, don't shoot the messenger.
 
Having watched the incident again and from what I have learnt from VAR videos online, Darren England/Dan Cook wouldn't of known the flag has went up as I'm sure they don't see the host broadcaster images and just have the main camera to watch the game from. I'm saying this in response to watching the NBC reaction and Rebecca Lowe saying why has Darren England not seen the players stop celebrating and seeing the lines with his flag up but the VAR wouldn't of got those shots as they are from the host broadcaster and not the VAR feed.

Therefore what was the communication from the on field team, does the VAR hear what the AR is saying(as I'm sure he would be saying he's delaying the flag) or does he only hear what the referee is saying? This is where hearing the audio could be useful because it is bizarre 2 people(maybe 3 if you include the replay operator) thought the on field decision was a goal and not a goal being disallowed so did Simon Hooper and his assistant not communicate this well enough or was it just a lapse in concentration? I must say though, all this talk about the VAR team did a game on VAR out in the UAE and that they could be fatigued seems as a bit of a cop out, would understand it more if they were reffing that game(especially in England's case) but that wasn't the case.
 
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Now being reported in The Sunday Times and The Independent, as predicted. These officials should have been nowhere near games this weekend, and it very questionable whether it should be allowed anyway. Howard Webb still has a lot of questions to answer, as the explanation is dubious at best, and an apology isn’t good enough. I hope somebody calls for an independent inquiry into the whole mess, as the credibility of officials is now being called into question, and not just the Twitter fanbase.
Depends who made the request, these are FIFA officials so if FIFA asked for them to officiate in the UAE PGMOL can't refuse. But completely agree they shouldn't be officiating 48 hours later. I suspect the challenge is that there just aren't enough SG1 officials to have stood them down.

This is like a debate I had in a WhatApp chat with multiple Liverpool fans in it. Someone else in there had been to Huddersfield vs Ipswich and bemoaned how bad the refereeing was, then the Liverpool fans started saying that Darren England should be fired for his error. My response was "what, and replace him with the referee that someone else says was rubbish at Huddersfield earlier?" (caveat, I haven't checked who that was). But this is the problem, there's no queue of SG2 referees waiting to step up to SG1. There's a few young ones like Josh Smith and Sam Barrott who look like they have potential, and Bobby Madley who has been there and done it, but other than that the cupboard is a bit bare. And this for me is why SG2 hasn't delivered, it was supposed to be a progression path for referees to get to SG1, but many of the referees in in their 40s, or even 50s, and are never going to make it.
 
Depends who made the request, these are FIFA officials so if FIFA asked for them to officiate in the UAE PGMOL can't refuse. But completely agree they shouldn't be officiating 48 hours later. I suspect the challenge is that there just aren't enough SG1 officials to have stood them down.

This is like a debate I had in a WhatApp chat with multiple Liverpool fans in it. Someone else in there had been to Huddersfield vs Ipswich and bemoaned how bad the refereeing was, then the Liverpool fans started saying that Darren England should be fired for his error. My response was "what, and replace him with the referee that someone else says was rubbish at Huddersfield earlier?" (caveat, I haven't checked who that was). But this is the problem, there's no queue of SG2 referees waiting to step up to SG1. There's a few young ones like Josh Smith and Sam Barrott who look like they have potential, and Bobby Madley who has been there and done it, but other than that the cupboard is a bit bare. And this for me is why SG2 hasn't delivered, it was supposed to be a progression path for referees to get to SG1, but many of the referees in in their 40s, or even 50s, and are never going to make it.
From what I read an approach was made to the FA which was approved by PGMOL. As Martyn Ziegler in The Times is reporting “Questions for PL and PGMOL now about possible fatigue + whether referees working in Gulf states for one-off matches causes risk of conflict of interest”

I don’t really see the fatigue issue, but decisions like this, letting officials choose money spinning gigs in the UAE, instead of League Cup games, feeds the conspiracy theorists, and is seriously undermining the credibility of our top level referees, (just read the comments underneath Tweets from Ziegler and other football journalist running this story). Howard Webb should t have allowed it, and I think can only be cleared up by getting and independent body in to review the whole mess from Saturday, and VAR going forward. Maybe somebody from English rugby?
 
It’s a clanger initially by the AR, and a big one at that.

Then VAR has made things worse.

What I’m seeing online and from the posts on here, the decision basically comes down to poor communication, and nothing else. Not sure I agree on the comments about them being too ‘matey’; calling each other by a nickname is fairly standard on comms and hardly the end of the world. But I guess they will introduce standard terminology for everyone to use.
A message from the Specialist AR union :).

For those describing the initial decision by the AR in strongly derogatory terms, I'd encourage you to consider the speed of the players and therefore the timescales involved. Whilst these decisions look 'obvious' when freeze framed, in real time they are extraordinarily difficult. The AR involved will, of course, be very disappointed and will be marked down appropriately ... but this was just one of many highly challenging decisions they will have had to make through the course of the game.

For context, this season at Step 1 (obviously WAY slower and easier than the EPL!) four of my eight KMI decisions have come down to less than 0.2 of a second. So if you're fractionally out of line, switch off momentarily, distracted by play nearby or unsure of the exact moment the ball is played then you are highly likely to get the decision wrong. Maybe, despite their professional status and good remuneration, a little empathy and understanding is in order!
 
A message from the Specialist AR union :).

For those describing the initial decision by the AR in strongly derogatory terms, I'd encourage you to consider the speed of the players and therefore the timescales involved. Whilst these decisions look 'obvious' when freeze framed, in real time they are extraordinarily difficult. The AR involved will, of course, be very disappointed and will be marked down appropriately ... but this was just one of many highly challenging decisions they will have had to make through the course of the game.

For context, this season at Step 1 (obviously WAY slower and easier than the EPL!) four of my eight KMI decisions have come down to less than 0.2 of a second. So if you're fractionally out of line, switch off momentarily, distracted by play nearby or unsure of the exact moment the ball is played then you are highly likely to get the decision wrong. Maybe, despite their professional status and good remuneration, a little empathy and understanding is in order!
By their standards, this is a really really poor decision. Lining is incredibly difficult, but by the standards and measurements that they operate on at SG1, this would be a clanger.
 
A message from the Specialist AR union :).

For those describing the initial decision by the AR in strongly derogatory terms, I'd encourage you to consider the speed of the players and therefore the timescales involved. Whilst these decisions look 'obvious' when freeze framed, in real time they are extraordinarily difficult. The AR involved will, of course, be very disappointed and will be marked down appropriately ... but this was just one of many highly challenging decisions they will have had to make through the course of the game.

For context, this season at Step 1 (obviously WAY slower and easier than the EPL!) four of my eight KMI decisions have come down to less than 0.2 of a second. So if you're fractionally out of line, switch off momentarily, distracted by play nearby or unsure of the exact moment the ball is played then you are highly likely to get the decision wrong. Maybe, despite their professional status and good remuneration, a little empathy and understanding is in order!
Yes, can’t blame the AR at all
 
The Liverpool statement strikes me in two ways. First, but alluding to correct application of LOTG, it sounds like they are trying to figure out a way to cast this as an appealable mistake of law to justify a replay. Second, its a lot of noise to appease their fans and make them think the team is aggressively doing something.
 
The Liverpool statement strikes me in two ways. First, but alluding to correct application of LOTG, it sounds like they are trying to figure out a way to cast this as an appealable mistake of law to justify a replay. Second, its a lot of noise to appease their fans and make them think the team is aggressively doing something.
Of course that's what they're doing!
 
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