The Ref Stop

Six seconds

RefJef

RefJef

RefChat Addict
Can a referee be both right and wrong at the same time? I think this video suggests they can. Watch from 2 min. 25 secs if you want to jump straight to the incident. Roth watching with sound on to hear the commentary.

I think we’ll all agree the ref was right in law …

but would you have done what he did? If not, are you last week’s ref?

 
The Ref Stop
In 30+ years of playing and refereeing I don't think I have ever seen a keeper penalised for this.

Obviously not wrong technically, but if he does it once he has to do it every single time. Context is obviously key, we don't know if he has already warned the keeper, spoke to the captain, etc, but if it was a one off decision he has certainly stuck his head above the parapet to be shot at.

Don't know what level this was, but I'm guessing it was below supply league. Just can't see a L4 or higher referee doing this.
 
RefJef said:
Can a referee be both right and wrong at the same time? I think this video suggests they can. Watch from 2 min. 25 secs if you want to jump straight to the incident. Roth watching with sound on to hear the commentary.

I think we’ll all agree the ref was right in law …

but would you have done what he did? If not, are you last week’s ref?

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We don't know from the clip whether he had previously spoken with the goalkeeper about the same issue, or whether he shouted or signalled on this occasion.
If so, fine to award the free kick.
If not, he was right in law but always likely to end up with trouble.
The commentary is interesting; he thought all referees were now ignoring the law.
 
RustyRef said:
In 30+ years of playing and refereeing I don't think I have ever seen a keeper penalised for this.

Obviously not wrong technically, but if he does it once he has to do it every single time. Context is obviously key, we don't know if he has already warned the keeper, spoke to the captain, etc, but if it was a one off decision he has certainly stuck his head above the parapet to be shot at.

Don't know what level this was, but I'm guessing it was below supply league. Just can't see a L4 or higher referee doing this.
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I think Helston play in the Western League (?)
 
JamesL said:
This is step 5. The ref is L4.
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Fair enough. I think then more context has to come into it: was one team winning and holding onto a league, were they obviously time wasting in other situations, were the opposition complaining about the time the keeper held the ball, etc.

One of those that as an observer I would have to support as it is totally correct in law. As a coach I would be asking him did he really need to give it. Nothing came of it, but what might have been the impact on his match control if it was scored and changed the outcome of the game?

Not quite the same, but was on the line to an L4 who penalised a keeper for touching the ball twice with his hands. He had parried a tame shot, dribbled to the edge of the area, then picked it up, and at that point he gave an IDFK. Just about supported by law, but certainly not expected, and it really affected him, he went from having a really good game up until that point to really struggling for the rest of it. As I asked him after the game, is it really worth giving yourself problems when no one is expecting you to take that decision.
 
I’ve never seen a 6 second call live. I saw it once in a women’s game between the US and Canada a decade or so ago. I think it was WWC, but it could have been Olympics. I think it was at 13 or 14 seconds. According to the AR, the GK was warned several times. The US players were waving and counting each time the GK had the ball, and finally in the second half the R whistled it.

On the parry, I note that the specific language that a parry was possession left the Laws a few years ago. When it was there, I called it once in a B19 game, in what I think the concept was really aimed at: the GK had an extremely soft ball coming to him and guided it down to his feet. And then, in a obvious effort to waste time, just stood there waiting for the other team to come challenge him for the ball and got a step away from him. About as blatant as the offense could be. He didn’t complain at the time-but he asked me about it after the game. He had taken a referee class from me a week or two before (and admittedly we didn’t cover that nuance in the AYSO basic referee course).
 
More than the time, I think the keeper's actions have caused this.

He's stood still like a lemon up until 14 seconds, then gone to kick the ball, stuttered and then kicked it again. No attempt to pretend that the reason he's not played is because he's trying to play short and being let down by his team, and then adds an additional second or two delay with the stutter kick.

The one time I have given this, it was for almost identical actions following on from excess time wasting and a warning generally, albeit it was end of the second half rather than the 1st!
 
I'm not an Observer, but if I was, I'd realise that I couldn't mark him down in Law for this, but it would make me look at his overall game to find areas in which I could mark him down in the wider context. I doubt that would be a difficult task. This was the first half for one thing and it's 0-0 !! I'm also not keen on the twiddling with the yellow card presumably to discourage dissent
Lone Wolves will not progress. One way or another, the Referee must do absolutely everything in his power before pulling this rabbit out the hat

Edit: Having watched the full 10 minutes, I'm guessing he was being observed. He's very mobile, to the point that it looks like he's running excessively. I actually think he looks the part in many respects. However, he takes up horrible positions very close to the penalty spot when the ball is pinging around the goal area from corners etc. Too close to play and too central in and around the PA. In summary, I bet the lad can Referee, but I strongly suspect his mistakes have stemmed from trying TOO hard. His foul recognition looks good and so on. Just had a mare with that 'surprise' we always want to avoid
 
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Didn't a Liverpool keeper (Mignolet?) get penalised for this a few years ago? If I remember correctly it was something excessive, maybe around 20 seconds.
 
I've never penalised for this but I have warned keepers, and subsequently start counting out loud, at which point team mates will shout at him to get on with it. If had warned the keeper about 6 seconds and he then takes 14 I would blow. The goalkeeper is a total idiot if he does this after a warning.
 
Trip said:
I've never penalised for this but I have warned keepers, and subsequently start counting out loud, at which point team mates will shout at him to get on with it. If had warned the keeper about 6 seconds and he then takes 14 I would blow. The goalkeeper is a total idiot if he does this after a warning.
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I've also never penalised for this.

I can't envisage getting involved unless there is a motivation for time-wasting - in which case he will almost certainly do the same thing at goal kicks. Much preferable to dish out a YC for that, in which case you've dealt with the issue and avoided the carnage that can ensue from an IDFK in the penalty area.

My advice would be never count out loud :
(i) you paint yourself into a corner - do you really want to penalise as soon as you get to 7 ?
(ii) it encourages players to do it and you never want that - I actively stop that if it starts happening
 
Would it change your approach if the GK was already on a yellow for an unrelated reason?

The time I did this that I previously referred to, the GK had already gone in the book for giving away a penalty earlier in the game. When I gave the IFK, I then bottled the yellow - it was only later that I realised a yellow wouldn't have been appropriate anyway!

But in that case, choosing to ignore an opportunity to give an IFK in favour of waiting to give a second YC and red would have been causing myself more trouble rather than less!
 
GraemeS said:
More than the time, I think the keeper's actions have caused this.

He's stood still like a lemon up until 14 seconds, then gone to kick the ball, stuttered and then kicked it again. No attempt to pretend that the reason he's not played is because he's trying to play short and being let down by his team, and then adds an additional second or two delay with the stutter kick.

The one time I have given this, it was for almost identical actions following on from excess time wasting and a warning generally, albeit it was end of the second half rather than the 1st!
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Yes, this. I have given this - but in added time, 2nd half, repeated warnings, other cards fir teammates already.

Context is everything. The commentary suggests there was not additional relevant context but @JamesL tell us more!
 
GraemeS said:
Would it change your approach if the GK was already on a yellow for an unrelated reason?

The time I did this that I previously referred to, the GK had already gone in the book for giving away a penalty earlier in the game. When I gave the IFK, I then bottled the yellow - it was only later that I realised a yellow wouldn't have been appropriate anyway!

But in that case, choosing to ignore an opportunity to give an IFK in favour of waiting to give a second YC and red would have been causing myself more trouble rather than less!
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Possibly.

I'm not saying I would never do it and if he stands there like a lemon long enough there is clearly no choice - just that there will usually be a way of managing timewasting I would prefer and I've never felt the need to do it (and in 20+ years as a keeper with a decent repertoire of techniques to slow the game down, I've never had it done to me !). One things for sure, if I did go for it, he'd have had enough loud encouragement to comply that no-one would be surprised

However, I do say 'never' to counting out loud to 6 - that is creating a rod for your own back
 
To add to all the comments above, I wouldn’t even start my “internal” clock until about 5 seconds or more into the GKs possession of the ball - I don’t start thinking about the time the keeper has held the ball until everything has calmed down, attackers cleared the area etc.

I could be wrong in this (but do we rally start the six seconds from when the keeper has possession- he may be sprawled on the ground), so given this, it’s only about 10 secs u til he actually kicks the ball.

I think the commentator was fair - you don’t really see this, then suggested later problems were due to this incident, although he did not absolve the player sin binned of all blame.

I suspect @Big Cat may be right - he probably warned earlier in the game as being observed, and then had to follow through with the warning.
 
I’ve done this once, but as has been said context is everything. A few weeks ago I had a really bad tempered county cup game between the top two teams in the league. The away team lost in the semi final last year and expect to win it for the 5th time this time. The home team thought they could beat them, and told them so which added to the temperature.
After 20 minutes I’d had an away player off for a stamp and also a couple of cautions for the same team for reckless tackles. They then went 2-0 up!

They then went into game killing mode and ‘lost’ several balls off the field as well as taking all the time they could for everything, but nothing really bad so I just added it on. However, after 85 minutes the home team scored. They then started to push for an equaliser and the away team started pushing their luck.

The goalkeeper then caught the ball high and did a Pickford! I let him get up and then told him to ”hurry it up, please keeper” after about 15 seconds,. At this the captain screamed at me ”don’t tell him to hurry up! He’s got 7 seconds!” “ He’s actually got 6, and he’s already taken 15!” “Don’t tell him to hurry up! Just do your job!”

The next time the keeper got it he did it again, so I made a point of timing him, and penalised him when the watch got to 12 and he was obviously making no attempt to put the ball into play. He didn’t do it again!
 
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