Setting out the stall

Russell Jones

Well-Known Member
#21
surely no referee says "guys today I will allow jumping in front of quick free kicks and goalkeeper, you can have 14 seconds with ball in hand"
if the players don't know as referee that you are there to enforce the rules
Regrettably, as the many threads relating to 'Last Week's Ref' make clear, there are many of our colleagues who opt for an easy life and so don't enforce the 'Rules' as appropriately as they should. Therefore players may come into games under the misapprehension that they can 'get away with stuff'' and therefore some referees choose to nip this notion in the bud pre-game.

And of course, you're right, no referee is ever going to say something like '14 seconds is fine' . However, if a referee was particularly stringent and hard core on 'six seconds and no longer' then he might choose to pre warn the two keepers to avoid a surprise the first time he penalises this!

Make sense?
 

Ciley Myrus

I came in like a wrecking ball?
#22
Regrettably, as the many threads relating to 'Last Week's Ref' make clear, there are many of our colleagues who opt for an easy life and so don't enforce the 'Rules' as appropriately as they should. Therefore players may come into games under the misapprehension that they can 'get away with stuff'' and therefore some referees choose to nip this notion in the bud pre-game.

And of course, you're right, no referee is ever going to say something like '14 seconds is fine' . However, if a referee was particularly stringent and hard core on 'six seconds and no longer' then he might choose to pre warn the two keepers to avoid a surprise the first time he penalises this!

Make sense?

Of course, its just something I cant imagine ever doing but as ever, if it works for someone, it works....
The advice I got (ok years and years ago) was, to take as little to do with the players as possible, let them do their game and you do yours
I would never suggest a player coming into my room pre match to tell me his teams tactics for the day, so I cant imagine me going to a player and telling him/them mine.
 

xPositor

Well-Known Member
#23
I would never suggest a player coming into my room pre match to tell me his teams tactics for the day
Even though some teams do this - e.g. "Ref, we like to play an incredibly short corner occasionally, just so you know and you don't think the ball hasn't been played". Also, if you and a bunch of other people have to lift something very heavy, and you all agree "On three!" - do you clarify "Lift when I say three", or "I'll count to three and then we lift"? That's what refs are doing when they have their brief pre-match chat - getting everybody on the same proverbial page.
 

alexgr

Active Member
#24
@Ciley Myrus I rarely do it, usually just speak to the captains but if I have the whole team I will mention 2 things. 1) Dissent won't be tolerated at all. 2) I'm happy to discuss discussions but come to me quietly at a stoppage in play.

Just sets me up nicely to caution players where necessary and can say well, I already warned you. Seems to have a fairly decent effect of cutting it out. If you're addressing a whole team, however, particularly at a grassroots level, I find they're more interesting in "warming up" kicking a ball around than listening to you.
 

SLI39

Well-Known Member
#25
Managers have sometimes asked me whether I want to 'talk to the players' during the equipment check. This sends the message to me that the team may have had disciplinary issues in the past, so although I very rarely speak to whole teams, I will communicate my expectations to the captains at kick-off (as per usual) and approach the game with slightly more wariness.

Having said that, recently I refereed a match in which the away team had received instructions pertaining to astro-turf/3G when the pitch assigned was, in fact, grass. The manager told me before the game had even started that he would probably be appealing the result! Since a few players did not have studded footwear, I spoke to the team to clarify that, despite the annoyance, I would be starting the match and would only consider stopping it if the surface became wet and I deemed it a safety issue.
 

Mintyref

Well-Known Member
#26
Got so that I spoke to teams at the equipment check. '"Please remember players that if I chose to have a word with you it is for your benefit. Secondly, I make the decisions not the CARs or your benches."
 

Ciley Myrus

I came in like a wrecking ball?
#27
Even though some teams do this - e.g. "Ref, we like to play an incredibly short corner occasionally, just so you know and you don't think the ball hasn't been played". Also, if you and a bunch of other people have to lift something very heavy, and you all agree "On three!" - do you clarify "Lift when I say three", or "I'll count to three and then we lift"? That's what refs are doing when they have their brief pre-match chat - getting everybody on the same proverbial page.

A ref who is not tuned in enough to see this short corner idea, is only in my opinion, not suitable for the task in hand
 

Brian Hamilton

I am the storm
Observer/Tutor
#28
Left foot, right foot. Please take that off. You can't wear that. If you don't take it off you're not playing. Never heard that one before. I can see I'm going to have trouble with you.

Captains, work with me, if I call you in you're there to help, if you don't help, I won't bring you in any more.

Heads or tails?
 

Brian Hamilton

I am the storm
Observer/Tutor
#30
A ref who is not tuned in enough to see this short corner idea, is only in my opinion, not suitable for the task in hand
My solution to the "referee we do this at corners..." is to announce loudly that the ball is in play... stops them doing it again... keeps the world in balance.
 

Ciley Myrus

I came in like a wrecking ball?
#31
I totally understand the concept of a team saying that pre match to a ref but where do you draw the line? This is what we do at throws, this is how we celebrate a goal? If they as players don't feel they can trust? you to be aware enough at the taking of a corner, then how can they have any faith in any other decision !
 

Ciley Myrus

I came in like a wrecking ball?
#32
How many times did i get asked for kick off after they won the toss!!! Never learned!!!
Aye that happens a lot, I tend to toss coin, they shout, then I kinda extend my arm out to the blue team captain and say firmly, "centre" then extend other arm out to the yellow team and go "choice of end". Less you say, less can be misunderstood
 

RustyRef

Moderator
Staff member
#33
Giving a briefing to both teams before the game is very old school. It used to be common place, but now in referee coaching circles it is generally viewed as bad practice. I just can't see what good is going to come out of it to be honest.

That isn't to say I won't talk to the players before the game, but on their own or in smaller groups rather than preaching to them.
 

JamesL

Well-Known Member
#34
Aye that happens a lot, I tend to toss coin, they shout, then I kinda extend my arm out to the blue team captain and say firmly, "centre" then extend other arm out to the yellow team and go "choice of end". Less you say, less can be misunderstood
What do you do when neither captain is wearing blue? :ninja:

Or yellow for that matter.
 

Sheffields Finest

Maybe I'm foolish, Maybe I'm blind!
#36
RR is right, there is little to gain from reading the Riot Act before a game then not carrying stuff out as you've warned. Keep it short and respectful and keep your powder dry.... They got to know my buttons not to press, the clever ones learned..... A friend on FB was playing in a game and there were a few comments hurled and he said he shook his head even with his own players when the ears were tweaked..He knew what was coming next regardless of who'd said it!!!
 

OIREF!

Well-Known Member
#37
Giving a briefing to both teams before the game is very old school. It used to be common place, but now in referee coaching circles it is generally viewed as bad practice. I just can't see what good is going to come out of it to be honest.
It was certainly encouraged and expected when I did my course 12 years ago. From the advice dished out at RA meetings and training sessions it still seems to be the case.
 

RustyRef

Moderator
Staff member
#38
It was certainly encouraged and expected when I did my course 12 years ago. From the advice dished out at RA meetings and training sessions it still seems to be the case.
I'd suggest the problem may be that the RA meetings and training sessions are run by those old school people. I know a lot of FA CORE coaches and there is no way any of them would advise talking to the teams before the game to set out your stall.

30 years ago FL referees would go into the team changing room to give a talk, there is absolutely no time that ever happens now.
 

Ciley Myrus

I came in like a wrecking ball?
#39
Agreed, its a big no from me
Grass roots games should mirror as close as possible what the big boys do so if they don't do it...why would you......
Just stick to applying the LOTG to the best of your ability and let the players play to the best of their ability.....job done
 

Brian Hamilton

I am the storm
Observer/Tutor
#40
I'd suggest the problem may be that the RA meetings and training sessions are run by those old school people. I know a lot of FA CORE coaches and there is no way any of them would advise talking to the teams before the game to set out your stall.

30 years ago FL referees would go into the team changing room to give a talk, there is absolutely no time that ever happens now.
Not this old school person. Players don't want to hear you before a game, so keep it to the technical stuff and crack on.