A&H

Saints v Spied on Derby

On the whole, you're not a VAR fan, correct?

I want the right decision for sure, but at what cost? To ruin football as a spectator sport?? There is a place for it, but this so far is a dogs dinner!!

It works well in other sports, our stakeholders couldn't run a bath!!
 
The Referee Store
On the whole, you're not a VAR fan, correct?
I'm not philosophically opposed to VAR :)

Implementation in Australia continues to be shocking - and horrendously inconsistent.
There's issues with it not being communicated to fans well, with it appearing to be used selectively to benefit certain teams more than others ('big club' syndrome), and with ARs being told to keep the flag down, contravening the LOTG (although with all the nonsense about accidental handling on a slide being an automatic foul, FIFA no longer seem to care about the LOTG).
And they stick to the absurd notion from FIFA that it can't be a dive if there's any contact whatsoever.

Part of me wonders if it shouldn't be used at all for penalty decisions unless the ref calls for it - or unless the referee was completely unsighted.
 
I'm not philosophically opposed to VAR :)

Implementation in Australia continues to be shocking - and horrendously inconsistent.
There's issues with it not being communicated to fans well, with it appearing to be used selectively to benefit certain teams more than others ('big club' syndrome), and with ARs being told to keep the flag down, contravening the LOTG (although with all the nonsense about accidental handling on a slide being an automatic foul, FIFA no longer seem to care about the LOTG).
And they stick to the absurd notion from FIFA that it can't be a dive if there's any contact whatsoever.

Part of me wonders if it shouldn't be used at all for penalty decisions unless the ref calls for it - or unless the referee was completely unsighted.
So we're all agreed it's a mess
Almost everyone has been crying out for technology for a decade or two, but i always assumed that it would be introduced on an incremental basis, like GLT followed by x then y & z
Instead, we have a 64 page protocol, which somewhat renders the match officials redundant with calamity just around every corner. They could have improved refereeing by insisting the LOTG are applied, but the driving force is always €$£
 
Interestingly, in a room full of 100 or so refs the other night, i didn't hear one positive voice on the subject of VAR, other than AT's. He would have sided with @CapnBloodbeard on this subject i reckon, but few others in the room were 'onside'.
I stated that VAR was meant to be maximum impact, minimal interference, but the protocol is drifting further and further away from the latter. Until hawkeye can instantly buzz the assistant (or similar), the constant reviews are a disaster imo
I'd rather have the assistant's call, right or wrong

I want the right decision for sure, but at what cost? To ruin football as a spectator sport?? There is a place for it, but this so far is a dogs dinner!!

It works well in other sports, our stakeholders couldn't run a bath!!

It would be interesting to see if you both felt the same way if your club conceded an equaliser to draw a game they needed to win for promotion after an offside goal was allowed by the same distance of the Derby one the other night. Would you rather have the correct decision with a bit of delay to correctly disallow a goal and get promoted, or have the goal allowed because it might take a bit of time to review and the fans don't get to cheer straight away?
 
So we're all agreed it's a mess
Almost everyone has been crying out for technology for a decade or two, but i always assumed that it would be introduced on an incremental basis, like GLT followed by x then y & z
Instead, we have a 64 page protocol, which somewhat renders the match officials redundant with calamity just around every corner. They could have improved refereeing by insisting the LOTG are applied, but the driving force is always €$£



You have correctly identified what is on the cards. The on field ref will merely be a figurehead, the man in van will call the shots
Cant even say for sure the on field ref will even be needed to issue cards, afterall, each ground with VAR has a big screen, so screen flashes, red card, player has to go off, although it would be amusing to see the player try to harrang and abuse a screen 50 yards up in the air.

Already we are starting to diminish the Ar role....no need to flag obvious goal kicks, dont flag offside if there is a chance you are wrong (which is a more accurate description of the process)
 
On the whole, you're not a VAR fan, correct?
A side note, you want to know how messed up VAR is in our country?
White are attacking.
Ball went to the PIOP who crossed it in to a player who scored.
VAR allowed it.
Also, watching video - there was no reason for the AR to be out of position.
Incidentally, in a game that my team had we had a player sent off and a penalty awarded - there's a potential offside in the leadup. I still have no idea if the VAR checked it, but it looked offside.
We've recently had a goal allowed when the keeper was fouled, ball went out then back in for a shot - VAR only checked offside on the shot and not the clear keeper foul. Another penalty which clearly wasn't (attacker was leaning into the defender and fell down when the defender stepped away), but because 'there was contact'.

But with decisions like the twitter post - I've said before that fan perception of referee bias has increased since VAR has been brought in.
@one
 
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I don't get the problem as for me it is working well in England. It isn't taking too long, which was my main worry, and it is correcting decisions that would otherwise incorrectly change the game. Surely this is what people wanted, you can't cry out for VAR for years only to them complain about it when it comes in.
 
I don't get the problem as for me it is working well in England. It isn't taking too long, which was my main worry, and it is correcting decisions that would otherwise incorrectly change the game. Surely this is what people wanted, you can't cry out for VAR for years only to them complain about it when it comes in.
This is my issue. People expect that as soon it’s implimented, it should be perfect. At this stage the main thing is getting the decision correct which has been happening. As referees get more used to the system, it’ll speed up.
 
I don't get the problem as for me it is working well in England. It isn't taking too long, which was my main worry, and it is correcting decisions that would otherwise incorrectly change the game. Surely this is what people wanted, you can't cry out for VAR for years only to them complain about it when it comes in.
Curious how two people can have polar opposite viewpoints. We're so far apart, there's just no point entering into debate
 
Curious how two people can have polar opposite viewpoints. We're so far apart, there's just no point entering into debate
I genuinely don’t know how people think it isn’t going well in England. OK, it’s not been quick and there is room for improvement in some areas but with anything new, it takes time to implement.

There’s been absoloutely nothing to suggest that when referees become more experienced when using the technology it won’t be a success
 
I genuinely don’t know how people think it isn’t going well in England. OK, it’s not been quick and there is room for improvement in some areas but with anything new, it takes time to implement.

There’s been absoloutely nothing to suggest that when referees become more experienced when using the technology it won’t be a success

There's nothing to suggest it will either! They are using the best technology and the best referees so how is it going to get 'better'? I hear/read this all the time and it drives me mad!
 
I don't get the problem as for me it is working well in England. It isn't taking too long, which was my main worry, and it is correcting decisions that would otherwise incorrectly change the game. Surely this is what people wanted, you can't cry out for VAR for years only to them complain about it when it comes in.

As I certainly have NOT 'been crying out for it for years' I will continue to complain!:p
 
There's nothing to suggest it will either! They are using the best technology and the best referees so how is it going to get 'better'? I hear/read this all the time and it drives me mad!
Because they are getting the decisions correct, they just have to speed it up.

Serious question, why do you doubt that it’ll be a success? When you’ve seen it used during the FA Cup, what’s the negatives bar the speed of its use?
 
Apologies for my recent lack of attention on this, ive been doing some secret stuff for a car manufacturer in Paris!!

Anyway, where we at?? Have they been charged and docked points yet?? :)Are we top of the league yet??? :angel::smoke::smoke::smoke:
 
Because they are getting the decisions correct, they just have to speed it up.

Serious question, why do you doubt that it’ll be a success? When you’ve seen it used during the FA Cup, what’s the negatives bar the speed of its use?

Specifically FA Cup - It can't be right that same competition, some matches its used some it isn't - the Newcastle goal that would have been disallowed if VAR in place is the obvious example.

Speed - I keep saying it, but no one is listening - a REVIEW system is always going to take time to review - so never going to be able give an instant decision, which as others have said kills celebrating a goal and changes the game for the worse. It will never be instant and how is it going to be 'speeded' up - it isn't.

It also changes the consistency of decision making in a match - we have seen fouls given in the penalty area for the slightest of touches (technical a pen) but then wrestling matches at corners ignored or missed.

For me no system is going to result in a game without mistakes by officials - to aim for perfection is a futile exercise with the added disadvantage of the whole delay issue.
 
Specifically FA Cup - It can't be right that same competition, some matches its used some it isn't - the Newcastle goal that would have been disallowed if VAR in place is the obvious example.

Speed - I keep saying it, but no one is listening - a REVIEW system is always going to take time to review - so never going to be able give an instant decision, which as others have said kills celebrating a goal and changes the game for the worse. It will never be instant and how is it going to be 'speeded' up - it isn't.

It also changes the consistency of decision making in a match - we have seen fouls given in the penalty area for the slightest of touches (technical a pen) but then wrestling matches at corners ignored or missed.

For me no system is going to result in a game without mistakes by officials - to aim for perfection is a futile exercise with the added disadvantage of the whole delay issue.
I agree that it should be used in all games or none. It’s an unfair advantage, but that’s not specifically an issue with VAR.

Yes it will take time to review a decision but I personally think getting the decision right is more important than the instant celebration of the fans. Yes, it’s a spectator sport but on the Flip side, football is a business and incorrect decisions can change an entire season for clubs and have huge financial implications.

As for the corner situation, VAR was used on several at he WC to give penalties for those exact moments. And again, how important is consistency when the decisions are incorrect?
 
Specifically FA Cup - It can't be right that same competition, some matches its used some it isn't - the Newcastle goal that would have been disallowed if VAR in place is the obvious example.

Speed - I keep saying it, but no one is listening - a REVIEW system is always going to take time to review - so never going to be able give an instant decision, which as others have said kills celebrating a goal and changes the game for the worse. It will never be instant and how is it going to be 'speeded' up - it isn't.

It also changes the consistency of decision making in a match - we have seen fouls given in the penalty area for the slightest of touches (technical a pen) but then wrestling matches at corners ignored or missed.

For me no system is going to result in a game without mistakes by officials - to aim for perfection is a futile exercise with the added disadvantage of the whole delay issue.


They have to trial it though. If they trialled it in selected league games then that could affect the league table at the end of the season, e.g. Liverpool score a goal following VAR review after it was incorrectly ruled out for offside, but Man City have a goal incorrectly ruled out for offside and there is no VAR on that game. Whereas in the cups it only affects that game, one team benefits and one loses out, no other teams in the competition can possibly be affected by the decision.
 
I agree that it should be used in all games or none. It’s an unfair advantage, but that’s not specifically an issue with VAR.

Yes it will take time to review a decision but I personally think getting the decision right is more important than the instant celebration of the fans. Yes, it’s a spectator sport but on the Flip side, football is a business and incorrect decisions can change an entire season for clubs and have huge financial implications.

As for the corner situation, VAR was used on several at he WC to give penalties for those exact moments. And again, how important is consistency when the decisions are incorrect?
At the world cup, to deal with those moments (the pulling and hand balls we debated so much on here) they had the best referee in history (arguably) leading, supported by the best group of mentor/organizer refs ever assembled, they had the best refs in the world (give or take), lots of the world’s best refs over staffing the VAR, 8 weeks plus of 100% on VAR, constant training etc etc and it was still wildl!

The protocol is flawed. They gave a few pens for holding in the box! No sh*t sherlock. There were how many refs watching screens? The system is way to selective. There were loads of game changing decisions not made or that couldn’t be made. Handball penalties became kinda consistent with a few clangers - because Collina was doing press confs on it and constantly training an elite group with resources. And it was only 63.5 matches. A prem season is 380 plus all the cup nonsense. A far greater scope of scenarios. Far more difficult to be consistent. And again, Refs watching screens pitchside is just embarrasing.
 
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