At the end of the day apart from Steps 1-6 on a Saturday with fees paid by the FA, all other Leagues are paid by the League themselves or the County FA, so there will be many varied differences up & down the Country & is what it is - so yes, you are likely to be confused who gets what, but the important thing is, is what the Leagues you are on pay you.
Remuneration
- Thread starter RustyRef
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Currently i.e. last season
Level 2B referee £110 Assistant £70.
All receive 40p per mile.
Level 2A referee £150 Assistant £100.
All receive 40p per mile
iirc ... The semi pro library link, with all the fees on, I have is broken so going off memory.
Fees for this season have not been revealed and any figures quote is purely hearsay.
If you want to discuss match fees can we start a new thread? We've somehow detailed the congratulatory promotion thread..... AGAIN!
I would draw an end to the debate about whether Refereeing is a paid job or voluntary role as it's off topic
Personally, I don't see it as a binary argument. County Refereeing is more akin to a voluntary hobby with a bit of pocket money, whereas Level 1 has aspects of going to work. So it's a sliding scale.
That said, at all Levels, I should imagine that money is a minor factor with regards to what motivates or rewards us for doing what we do. Only a very small minority of elite Refs will get involved with HMRC
Personally, I don't see it as a binary argument. County Refereeing is more akin to a voluntary hobby with a bit of pocket money, whereas Level 1 has aspects of going to work. So it's a sliding scale.
That said, at all Levels, I should imagine that money is a minor factor with regards to what motivates or rewards us for doing what we do. Only a very small minority of elite Refs will get involved with HMRC
The definition of volunteer is "a person why does something, especially helping others, willingly and without being forced or paid to do it".
Referees, even at grass roots, fail two parts of that as they are not being forced to do it and they are being paid for it, they cannot possibly be defined as a volunteer.
if you're not being compensated fairly for your time and effort that makes you more like a volunteer than an employee. This is personal choice.
As big cat said only the most elite refs are needing to contact hmrc.
I wasn't going to reply but as you are adamant you're right i thought i would give my opinion.
For me referees are worth a lot more than minimum wage, especially at the higher levels. Personal trainers are £30 an hour and there are comparisons there.
Legally, that's not true.
You must declare gross income of £1000 or more, whether you make a loss or not.
Most referees at L4 and above are easily clearing this across a season.
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I'm glad it's not just me that knows this! Thought I was a bit of an idiot calculating how much I've made from reffing (nowhere near that this season though).
The most important thing is to maintain records and to keep receipts etc of all deductibles for travelling/personal trainers/physios etc. I am not an elite Referee or Observer, but I am on the cusp of receiving over a net income of £1,000 so I have requested a Unique tax reference number from HMRC with a view to completing a self assessment return.
Scotty Ref
Active Member
Which makes sense if you think about it. A loaf of white bread 20 years ago was 66p, it is now £1.40. A pint of milk was 36p, it is now 65p. Pitch hire costs are at least double what they were 20 years ago, arguably much higher. Prices for a lot of things are double what they were in 2004, so it stands to reason that referee fees have increased.
deusex
RefChat Addict
Vehicle wear and tear is a thing (as is insurance). You absolutely are not making a £100 profit on mileage expenses.
deusex
RefChat Addict
Attitudes like yours are why the powers that be know they can pay refs less than minimum wage.
"Yessir, thank you for taking 2 days of my life. What an privilege!"
Way to keep everyone's pay down
Yes, but as we are classed as self employed, they are not obliged to pay us anything!Attitudes like yours are why the powers that be know they can pay refs less than minimum wage.
"Yessir, thank you for taking 2 days of my life. What an privilege!"
Way to keep everyone's pay down
how does that work then?
Self employed people are not entitled to the same employment rights as employees. They may well be obliged to pay us, and I won’t pretend to be an expert on this, but unless you have a contract with The FA (which I don’t believe you do) stating you are a worker, there is no entitlement to claim minimum wage or above, so essentially they can get away with not paying anything if they want to. By all means, please feel free to disprove my argument, I’d love to know I’m entitled to more money then I get from reffing, I just don’t believe I am!
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To be fair I have already demonstrated the pay is significantly above minimum wage.Attitudes like yours are why the powers that be know they can pay refs less than minimum wage.
"Yessir, thank you for taking 2 days of my life. What an privilege!"
Way to keep everyone's pay down
For me fuel is separate matter so i don't see that as a form of payment. I believe that is an expense.
Out of interest how often do you claim £200 in fuel? What about the ref who lives 50 miles away - does he get £200? No, he gets £40. Fuel expenses are not designed to cover up for a lack of pay.
Convenient for your argument but not correct as practice or morally.
With regard to you example of 14.5 hours for an evening game.
£150 = £10.34
£110 = £7.58
£70 = £4.82.
All are below minimum wage if 21+ (£11.44).
Maybe if the refs were all between 18 and 20 that would make if a lot cheaper as they get £8.60 an hour. Then two of your examples work.
Out of interest how often do you claim £200 in fuel? What about the ref who lives 50 miles away - does he get £200? No, he gets £40. Fuel expenses are not designed to cover up for a lack of pay.
Convenient for your argument but not correct as practice or morally.
With regard to you example of 14.5 hours for an evening game.
£150 = £10.34
£110 = £7.58
£70 = £4.82.
All are below minimum wage if 21+ (£11.44).
Maybe if the refs were all between 18 and 20 that would make if a lot cheaper as they get £8.60 an hour. Then two of your examples work.
Unless you are working on the higher levels of the pyramid system this wont apply to you - as it doesn't to me.
I'm merely demonstrating that those refs who are giving so many hours for one game are not being fairly compensated.
I understand that referees have agreed to the compensation / fees / mileage they receive but that doesn't make the outcome fair. Referees wont "go on strike" as they are ultimtely looking after number one.
Every person being afraid to speak up, if they wanted to. How would that help their future? Sad.
It's the way it's always been. How do you get change? Referees unite at the higher levels but they never will (see above).
Most employers don't pay you for time to travel. So if you want to take fuel out you to take the time travelling out.
It's also not true figures either because there's also allowable expenses that can be allocated meaning a divisible doesn't really work and it is all representative.
Never. Furthest mileage for me was 200 miles there and back. Longest travel time ~c.3 hrs.
This was an extreme example which I have only seen once.
A referee travelling 50 miles gets £20. But then they obviously doesn't leave 5 hours before the game they probably leave 1-1.5 hours. So we should be around about the same quoted figures.
You actually work for 4.5 hours. That's all that you get paid for. Simple. So it's the fee divided by 4.5.
If you were a self employed brick layer, and you had to travel 50 miles to your job, guess what you don't get paid for it. The fact that you get expenses to travel is way more than most self employed people get (they may make amends for it as part of their charging structure or fees but that's how business works anyway).
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