A&H

Rain!!

RustyRef said:
official advice given out
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What official advice? The only advice i've seen is the resources on this site
I remember playing in puddles, not that long ago. Memorable experiences in which we all got wet, but not injured
Anyway, if there's a whiff of rain in the air, most games are postponed days in advance these days leaving a lot of games to be played on unsafe concrete during the warmer months
 
The Referee Store
By the way, my game this morning was transferred to an adjacent pitch after 35 minutes, when a sink hole became apparent in the PA!
It collapsed under a player's footing, was about a foot wide, but led to a cavern under the ground. Someone called the council and the police even turned up for some reason. Made me wonder, if there's anything stupid in the rules which precludes transferring pitches mid-game. Even if there was, 'spirit of the game' would rule over it
 
The sink hole thing was funny. The kid was walking along and his leg disappeared up past the knee. He was a bit porky, so his team mates were ribbing him something rotten. Then, whilst the game resumed on the adjacent pitch, the coppers drove their car onto the other pitch and perilously close to the hole. Brilliant; boys in blue must have had a quiet morning
 
Big Cat said:
What official advice? The only advice i've seen is the resources on this site
I remember playing in puddles, not that long ago. Memorable experiences in which we all got wet, but not injured
Anyway, if there's a whiff of rain in the air, most games are postponed days in advance these days leaving a lot of games to be played on unsafe concrete during the warmer months
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http://www.thefa.com/-/media/cfa/global/files/referees/pitch-inspection-guidance.ashx

That’s the guidance from the FA.
 
I would say that part of that guidance surrounding standing water is to check with local groundsman about drainage would suggest that the game probably shouldn’t be played with it there
 
Big Cat said:
Thanks for posting
The key word is farcical, which is somewhat subjective. As I say, these days it's increasingly unlikely it would ever reach this stage of the ref needing to make the call, although previous threads on here have shown games getting the go-ahead in a quagmire
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I guess the difficulties lie in a referee turning up and upsetting 22+ people all ready for a game of football. You’re not going to please everyone in that scenario
 
Big Cat said:
The sink hole thing was funny. The kid was walking along and his leg disappeared up past the knee. He was a bit porky, so his team mates were ribbing him something rotten. Then, whilst the game resumed on the adjacent pitch, the coppers drove their car onto the other pitch and perilously close to the hole. Brilliant; boys in blue must have had a quiet morning
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Surprised they didn't close the entire park, sink holes don't appear for no reason so more could have opened up. Can't really see the police involvement though, unless just to fence it off.
 
Had a few that moaned about frosty pitches etc, but I can't ever remember one moan against a few minor puddles or boggy boxes...Is it a North / south thing maybe!! :poop:
 
Big Cat said:
Thanks for posting
The key word is farcical, which is somewhat subjective. As I say, these days it's increasingly unlikely it would ever reach this stage of the ref needing to make the call, although previous threads on here have shown games getting the go-ahead in a quagmire
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I would also say this bit is key …

A ball should be used to determine whether the surface is playable (for movement and bounce).

You wouldn't test to see whether the ball moves or bounces for no reason, and the reason is that if there are significant areas where this is the case the game shouldn't be played.

As a referee you aren't there to please people, if a difficult decision needs to be made and you call the game off then so be it. You are the sole arbiter in this respect (unless the groundsman has called it off), so if you say it is off it is off.

Also remember that whilst both teams might be happy and keen to start the game, when a team goes behind they might not be quite so happy to carry on and you face being nagged to call it off.
 
Sheffields Finest said:
Had a few that moaned about frosty pitches etc, but I can't ever remember one moan against a few minor puddles or boggy boxes...Is it a North / south thing maybe!! :poop:
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Whether the players are moaning or not about standing water on the pitch is completely irrelevant to the decision
 
I refereed two games today (very unusual for me) wearing firm ground boots with no sign of standing water whatsoever
Yet two large local private sports facilities called all games off because it was raining. Both facilities would have lost (i'm guessing) £500-1000 in revenue over a 6 hour period. Whilst i get the whole farcical thing, I don't get the routine nature by which games are called off these days.
 
Big Cat said:
I refereed two games today (very unusual for me) wearing firm ground boots with no sign whatsoever of standing water
Yet two large local private sports facilities called all games off because it was raining. Both facilities would have lost (i'm guessing) £500-1000 in revenue over a 6 hour period. Whilst i get the whole farcical thing, I don't get the routine nature by which games are called off these days.
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They protect the pitches. They may have lost £500-£1000 today, but if playing on them today ruined them that could amount to much more lost money over the course of the season.

That's why when doing pitch inspections at senior levels you will often get words of "advice" from the groundsman as he doesn't want it played on. Partly because of the amount of work he is going to have to do, but more likely the potential long term damage to the pitch.
 
RustyRef said:
They protect the pitches. They may have lost £500-£1000 today, but if playing on them today ruined them that could amount to much more lost money over the course of the season.

That's why when doing pitch inspections at senior levels you will often get words of "advice" from the groundsman as he doesn't want it played on. Partly because of the amount of work he is going to have to do, but more likely the potential long term damage to the pitch.
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More like the groundsman were out on the drink last night and couldn't be bothered. I happen to know this to be true
Both miserable gits and a disgrace to the interests of football participation. Sadly, they're not the only ones
 
QuaverRef said:
Whether the players are moaning or not about standing water on the pitch is completely irrelevant to the decision
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Of course its your final decision but you can take all factors into consideration including the participants view too... At the end of the day, it's not you who is going to be sliding about on the surface!!
 
It’s really tough, but as Rusty mentions above, you don’t necessarily win even if both teams want to play at the outset. One team goes behind and suddenly l, the pitch is a disgrace and they’re making veiled threats along the lines of ‘I hope for your sake that no one gets injured’.

Players and officials will say/do many things to influence you into doing what they want, even if what they want changes by the minute!
 
So ultimately, it’s YOUR decision. Make it and stand by it.

Plus, for every moaner about wanting to play, there will be a teammate secretly relieved that they don’t have to in those conditions, but unwilling to speak up - at grassroots mens, a lot of lads depend on their fitness/bodies to earn a living. An injury that stops them working can be devastating.
 
Sheffields Finest said:
Of course its your final decision but you can take all factors into consideration including the participants view too... At the end of the day, it's not you who is going to be sliding about on the surface!!
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I wouldn’t trust the players too much to have any idea about what is acceptable.
I abandoned a supply league game for player safety after the home team had dug drainage ditches across the pitch. In most areas these were ok when I checked them before the game, but I didn’t notice one area was really bad and the ground was really soft. A player sprinted across this area and his foot went into the ground to half way down his shin. He was lucky not to break his leg - game over at that point.
The away team had travelled 2 hours to get there and they hadn’t told me about the ditches until I got there, so I felt pressured into playing the game. If they’d told me earlier I’d have inspected in time to stop them travelling and wouldn’t have had to abandon.
Both managers and the players wanted to carry on, and offered to sign a waiver to say I wouldn’t be blamed if anyone broke their leg! No thanks! I’m going home.
When you inspect, do it on your own so you don’t get pressured into making a decision someone else wants. Wear boots to check the pitch - I keep some in the car for this reason. If you’re not sure, put on kit and boots and take a ball. Have a gentle jog on the pitch, and if that’s ok do a bit more until you’re running reasonably hard. Don’t start sprinting until you’re sure it’s ok. Check the ball moves easily round the danger areas. The players will want to play but they’ll soon get fed up if the ball keeps getting stuck and then the boots start flying and people get hurt.
Yesterday was a perfect day for football. The ground was slippery but perfectly playable and slide tackles were going in left and right and no danger to anyone. Unfortunately players think a wet pitch is always like this. If there’s too much water that great slide tackle becomes aqua planing out of control, which is when legs get broken.
 
markref said:
I wouldn’t trust the players too much to have any idea about what is acceptable.
I abandoned a supply league game for player safety after the home team had dug drainage ditches across the pitch. In most areas these were ok when I checked them before the game, but I didn’t notice one area was really bad and the ground was really soft. A player sprinted across this area and his foot went into the ground to half way down his shin. He was lucky not to break his leg - game over at that point.
The away team had travelled 2 hours to get there and they hadn’t told me about the ditches until I got there, so I felt pressured into playing the game. If they’d told me earlier I’d have inspected in time to stop them travelling and wouldn’t have had to abandon.
Both managers and the players wanted to carry on, and offered to sign a waiver to say I wouldn’t be blamed if anyone broke their leg! No thanks! I’m going home.
When you inspect, do it on your own so you don’t get pressured into making a decision someone else wants. Wear boots to check the pitch - I keep some in the car for this reason. If you’re not sure, put on kit and boots and take a ball. Have a gentle jog on the pitch, and if that’s ok do a bit more until you’re running reasonably hard. Don’t start sprinting until you’re sure it’s ok. Check the ball moves easily round the danger areas. The players will want to play but they’ll soon get fed up if the ball keeps getting stuck and then the boots start flying and people get hurt.
Yesterday was a perfect day for football. The ground was slippery but perfectly playable and slide tackles were going in left and right and no danger to anyone. Unfortunately players think a wet pitch is always like this. If there’s too much water that great slide tackle becomes aqua planing out of control, which is when legs get broken.
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I still maintain that playing on concrete in the warmer months, poses more of a risk to player's safety than anything ordinarily associated with rain. This excludes some of the extreme encounters described above. Frozen ground is an absolute no-go
I accept that teams who indicate a desire to play in any conditions, will soon change their tune based on the outcome and will stab us in the back at the first opportunity. Therefore, farcical conditions also get a red card
 
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