The Ref Stop

Open Age Pre-match routine

Coachwayne said:
I'm actually coaching my 17y son on proper game control. He doesn't have to do my pre game speech, but he has to set the tone before the game starts or it'll be hard to keep control. Then he'll turn into those horrible refs who fight to keep control with cards.
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Wayne, when I started reffing I assumed that I was the best ref around from my first game. Alot of refs around me were young, timid and frankly scared to do the job properly and some were past it. I thought being a player meant I understood reffing because I understood the game. This was of course utter nonsense. Turns out I didn't know alot of the laws or restart procedures and worst of all, I thought I could manage games with words and assuring players that id played at a better standard and therefore I am more than capable of being a great ref at this level. I was dillusional and arrogant. My best quality always has been being very honest and self critical (without being harsh on myself), whether it's in sport or work.

After about 20 games I soon realised that they don't give 2 hoots what i say to them and quite why i expected they did when I didn't when I was a player was complete arrogance. Now, I realise that the best way to stop dissent is by carding it. I still talk to players all the time but I'm aware that it's having little effect in OA games which are close, the players are focused on the result and nothing else.

My card count has gone up from an average of probably 0.5 a game to 2.5 a game now at a rough guess and I'm a better referee for it and there are less incidents too during matches. On Sunday there was a reckless challenge, the type id normally just give a word for but I picked the lemon out of the pocket instantly, no arguments and no further bad tackles in a fiercely competitive top of the table Sunday league clash in the city centre. Only a small thing but I was pleased with myself as it's taken a full season to train myself to do that as opposed to just giving a foul and a word. The amount of times I've driven home thinking "why did I let that one go" and then make th3 same mistake the next game.....
 
The Ref Stop
Agree with above, I have seen me in games see a challenge I know is a yellow but for some reason only given a warning, and on the flip side, seen something I know is a yellow, give it, and killed everything stone dead.
There is no way you can put a reasoning or logic to a card count,
 
I keep my speil very short. Tell them if they want to play footie and I will let them and a quick chat to my CARs of what I am expecting of them. I am with you on this Miley I have shown a yellow in the first minute for a tackle and that set the tone. It meant all tackles were okish from that moment. later on in the game I think i gave 2 more yellows but if I hadn't of given rthat first one the game could of gone south. If that means I am weak then so be it. I card early for dissent and normally don't have to pull out anorther one for that offense. Me still being weak. The argument a ref who uses card is weak is wrong. Cards are needed and expected. I think you are more weak if you don't caution when you should. I also think captains don't listen at the start so talking to them is probably a waste of time but I would never tell a ref not to say anything its their choice what they want to say.
 
Ciley Myrus said:
Agree with above, I have seen me in games see a challenge I know is a yellow but for some reason only given a warning, and on the flip side, seen something I know is a yellow, give it, and killed everything stone dead.
There is no way you can put a reasoning or logic to a card count,
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This is why I generally don't say anything before kick off now, or at least very little dependant on circumstances. I've said that I won't tolerate dissent before, the game has gone on without incident and then there's a bit of dissent but nothing worthy of a card and something a shirt sharp word will sort. But because I've said that I'll card it pre match, I've had the skipper from the other team remind me what I said and then if they're losing they then start dissent and point out that i didn't do anything with the other team and you have a tricky situation when the match was going along fine,all because of your pre match waffle which you didn't need to say
 
I think its as black and white as, someone saying " I wont accept dissent" is kind of saying "other refs will accept dissent"

You cannot predict who will do what and when, how the game is, low level dissent, highest level, its just asking for a fall

Just referee to the best of your ability and nobody can have any complaints.
 
Ben448844 said:
Wayne, when I started reffing I assumed that I was the best ref around from my first game. Alot of refs around me were young, timid and frankly scared to do the job properly and some were past it. I thought being a player meant I understood reffing because I understood the game. This was of course utter nonsense. Turns out I didn't know alot of the laws or restart procedures and worst of all, I thought I could manage games with words and assuring players that id played at a better standard and therefore I am more than capable of being a great ref at this level. I was dillusional and arrogant. My best quality always has been being very honest and self critical (without being harsh on myself), whether it's in sport or work.

After about 20 games I soon realised that they don't give 2 hoots what i say to them and quite why i expected they did when I didn't when I was a player was complete arrogance. Now, I realise that the best way to stop dissent is by carding it. I still talk to players all the time but I'm aware that it's having little effect in OA games which are close, the players are focused on the result and nothing else.

My card count has gone up from an average of probably 0.5 a game to 2.5 a game now at a rough guess and I'm a better referee for it and there are less incidents too during matches. On Sunday there was a reckless challenge, the type id normally just give a word for but I picked the lemon out of the pocket instantly, no arguments and no further bad tackles in a fiercely competitive top of the table Sunday league clash in the city centre. Only a small thing but I was pleased with myself as it's taken a full season to train myself to do that as opposed to just giving a foul and a word. The amount of times I've driven home thinking "why did I let that one go" and then make th3 same mistake the next game.....
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@Ben448844 , i may as well give you my account login as our experiences are broadly aligned! Maybe it's an American thing, but the players over here have no respect for pre-match referee drivel. A limited amount of banter works better.
Like @Coachwayne , i've also never exceeded four yellow cards in a game, but that's merely because i've not had more than four cautionable offences. Thanks to the advice on this forum, it was a Eureka moment when i started issuing cards readily for verbals. The players quickly adapt to the height of the bar, set by the first instance of dissent. This is a key refereeing skill, not a weakness
 
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Ciley Myrus said:
100% this
am as minimal contact with anybody as possible.


can I open this out and ask, to anyone who does give their spiel, what on earth do you say please? Am gen interested
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I never speak to the teams or coaches. Why bother?

All I ever do is speak to the Captains at the toss. My pre-match spiel is as follows, and is pretty much verbatim every time:

"Okay guys, I'm not going to start boring you with crap you've heard a million times before - just play safely, have fun and let me enjoy it too please. It also helps if you let just me do the refereeing as well Okay?"

That's it. I then commence the toss ... :)
 
I dont even say as much as that. my spiel is at the toss......"good luck enjoy the game" as i shake hands then, I do the toss and away we go
 
Big Cat said:
@Ben448844 , i may as well give you my account login as our experiences are broadly aligned! Maybe it's an American thing, but the players over here have no respect for pre-match referee drivel. A limited amount of banter works better.
Like @Coachwayne , i've also never exceeded four yellow cards in a game, but that's merely because i've not had more than four cautionable offences. Thanks to the advice on this forum, it was a Eureka moment when i started issuing cards readily for verbals. The players quickly adapt to the height of the bar, set by the first instance of dissent. This is a key refereeing skill, not a weakness
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I just remember stood in the cold at the pitch going through a half baked warm up like you do on Sunday league or Saturday amateur footy and seeing the ref wandering over for a chat. The manager usually tells you to shut up and just listen so that he will go away as quick as possible and you just want him to go away because it's cold. At no point during the match will you think "the ref said not to do this so I wont".

And when the ref walked off normally everyone discusses any flaws in their appearance and how much of a **** they think he will be based on what he looks like and what he's said lol. Apologies for ruining any illusions people may have of chirchillian speeches and garnering instant respect,it does not happen. We could've had Howard Webb reffing and as he walked off it still would've been "that bald **** has put some weight on, I bet he's a proper ****". I wish it wasn't like this but I'm afraid it is lol
 
Ben448844 said:
I just remember stood in the cold at the pitch going through a half baked warm up like you do on Sunday league or Saturday amateur footy and seeing the ref wandering over for a chat. The manager usually tells you to shut up and just listen so that he will go away as quick as possible and you just want him to go away because it's cold. At no point during the match will you think "the ref said not to do this so I wont".
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Coincidentally, there was an old lady watching her Grandson in my U16 game at the weekend. She told me after the game, that the two teams had met just a few weeks earlier. The ref on the day gave the players a lengthy talking to before the game, but apparently did nothing to prevent a scrap in which the kids were kicking one another on the deck. In her words, 'the ref was full of himself, but did not do his job when needed'.
I didn't know about this previous fracas and was quite surprised to learn of it, given i only had one in the book for RP
Of course i'd like to feel accountable for the better outcome, but maybe i was just lucky. Point being, it was the referee's lecturing lwhich stuck in the grannies throat
You could call this, 'an old wives tale' ;)
 
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Like others I only speak to the captains at the coin toss, and even then its probably 10 seconds at most.

If players don't know what is and isn't acceptable on a football pitch in 2018 then that's their problem not mine
 
@Big Cat Yes, I think it’s a cultural thing. Refs giving a speech to the teams is not on the menu in Europe is it, anyone?

@Kes ”why bother” speaking to coaches? Seems a big glib. From the posts on this forum, talking to coaches before the match, even if it’s just practical/small talk is important, and becomes mandatory as you go higher.

@Ciley Myrus Go easy on the fella!

@Coachwayne I hope you get that it does seem odd to tell players before the game to play clean with no dissent or retaliation. That’s the stuff that players already know. I get the logic that it might help you ”sell” a card early in the game but I think the opposite. In difficult games the best referees are those able to bend their foul tolerance and communicate in-game when necessary. This is connected with why some of the best advice is never to say “next time it’s a card” because it traps the ref in a corner not the player.

Also, why would you want to make yourself the centre of attention before a game? We have duties, some things we have to do pre game, and then we have to choose when to be proactive. Personally my habit is getting a little too involved throughout a game. I’ve learnt that the best refs don’t have to constantly be involved but when they do, then they come big (moments of effective drama).
 
There are some things that could be useful when speaking to the captains as I found out the hard way in a county cup game. One team from a league I officiate in (club assistants help with offside), one team from miles away in a different league (club assistants do ball in/out only). The team not in my league's own assistant manager was doing the line, ball played through and as I looked at him, he was shaking his head vigorously, I thought 'perfect, he's sold a difficult decision there', I played on and was met with screeching from 5/6 players that it was offside. A quick word beforehand to the captains "lads, the assistants will be helping me with offside today" would have possibly avoided a lot of it but I just assumed they would know that.
 
Ben448844 said:
get them to tell all their players to remove any jewellery or I'll be stopping the game and the offending player will have to go off and remove it (get them to do part of my job for me!),
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But they are paying you to do that job so why wouldn’t you do it? It’s a 30 second task
 
I always tell the coaches that I'll be doing a kit and jewelry check. And tell them what I'll be checking, in a friendly way.

Mainly so it is easier to sell when I tell a player to change their sock tape etc.

I'd never trust a coach to police their players jewellery etc.
 
My routine for all levels - arrive early, inspect the pitch, greet the coaches/managers (equal time with both and not too lengthy), warm-up, stretch, inspect equipment and check player passes if needed. I do not get chatty with the teams. Retreat to mid-field and do a pre-game as a referee team then call captains.

Not knowing what open age would equate to over here (I assume high skill level adult?), I will say that I tend to vary my pre-game with the captains, depending on the age, experience, caliber of the players, importance of the game.

Here is the reality - most of what you say to the captains will never get back to their team.
  • With the younger youth players... pretty simple, quick and friendly. Have them shake hands, introduce themselves, maybe i'll joke and see if they can remember the other captain's name, quick laugh because they can't or "hey nice! Most can't remember it" toss coin and lets go. (keeps it light hearted)
  • Adult leagues - they know the routine and expectations. Just toss and go
  • Older youth - once they hit puberty and the hormones get going and the competition is getting more physical/intense. I have captains shake and introduce themselves then I may give them a quick chat
    • This should be a great game. I'm looking forward to it
    • We will do our very best to referee, you do your best to play and have fun.
    • If you have a question or something you want me to watch for, as long as it's polite and respectful, I have no problem explaining something one time. If it's yelled from 50 yards away, running up to me, or asked repeatedly, that's something different but if you want to ask me something and it's polite/respectful, I've got no problem
    • I've been playing for 40 years (still do), I've had hot heads on every team I've been on, I'm sure you do too and you can probably name them. As captains, you are the leaders on your teams, if people start getting wound up, please try to talk them down. If I have to do it, it is not nearly as much fun. Ready to have some fun?
    • Toss coin
I try to keep it positive and open. They generally chuckle and glance at the person next to them when I talk about hot heads either because one of them is the hot head or they both are thinking of the same person. I have noticed that I do have increase in captains quietly and politely asking me "could you keep an eye out for grabbing?" or something similar. It does seem to reduce the arguing/dissent if they feel I am approachable. I have had captains in these ages (U13-U18) get on their own players who start getting mouthy as a result.

As far as cards go (addressing several of the posts above).... I'm 5 years and about 500 games into refereeing. Things I have learned:
  • Playing and refereeing are two entirely different things. Refereeing is an art/skill. It must be practiced and skill must be developed
  • Everyone has a different style of refereeing from a player-management perspective. What may work for someone else may not be something that I can pull off or have work for me. I have learned many approaches from other referees that do work for me and have incorporated them into my "tool box".
  • Every game is different! What one game calls for may not be what the next game needs. Player management is not a substitute for sound refereeing. Getting through a game without cards is great but that is not the goal. Some games just need the cards. Others do not. Some cards are mandatory others are a matter of the CR's opinion.
  • I have only once ever second guessed a card ("maybe I was a bit harsh") BUT have regretted not dishing out cards more or earlier(temperature of game increased and spent the rest of the game trying to keep a lid on it. I have learned from those early mistakes. More often than not you will regret not using them than you will regret having used the tools given to you.
 
QuaverRef said:
But they are paying you to do that job so why wouldn’t you do it? It’s a 30 second task
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I do. But I rarely have to do anything during the inspection because the manager has told them to remove everything. I often chat to the manager and then look back a couple of mins later and see players removing their jewellery.
 
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