"PL managers want VARs to be assigned to refereeing teams"

[Viridis1886]

Probably makes sense.

It's very unlikely to make it worse, but you would be taking out some current active fop referees unless you have them rotating with the VAR or it becomes a bespoke VAR role.

Premier League managers want VARs to be assigned to specific refereeing teams

Premier League managers are lobbying for video assistant referees to be permanently assigned to expanded five-person refereeing squads

www.theguardian.com

 

[DazN]

If I was a conspiracy theorist I could quite easily believe VAR was deliberately being badly implemented so that the powers that be have a reason to stop using it.

In all seriousness, I don’t think there is an easy way to integrate it into the game without making some major changes to the way PL football is played and I am pretty much convinced that that will never happen.

Then I ask myself, if all of non-elite football can exist without it, do we really need it?

 

[SammyT5]

If I was a conspiracy theorist I could quite easily believe VAR was deliberately being badly implemented so that the powers that be have a reason to stop using it.

In all seriousness, I don’t think there is an easy way to integrate it into the game without making some major changes to the way PL football is played and I am pretty much convinced that that will never happen.

Then I ask myself, if all of non-elite football can exist without it, do we really need it?

Mike Dean made a good point on Sky Sports a few weeks ago that if England was to stop using VAR and other countries kept using it, English football would be left behind. It’s less likely that English refs would be appointed to big European games and teams playing in Europe wouldn’t be prepared for its use.

 

[Runner-Ref]

Waste of time. They will moan about it regardless.

I never ever wanted VAR. Officials get the vast majority of decisions correct. Them actually getting a major decision wrong (thinking Henry vs Ireland) were few and far between. But people wanted perfection for something that can never be perfect.

 

[GraemeS]

Mike Dean made a good point on Sky Sports a few weeks ago that if England was to stop using VAR and other countries kept using it, English football would be left behind. It’s less likely that English refs would be appointed to big European games and teams playing in Europe wouldn’t be prepared for its use.

Mike Dean having thoughts on this is ironic, because I think he's exactly why this is a bad idea!

VARs and referees becoming even closer mates, who's careers depending on supporting each other even more directly than they are currently? That's exactly how we encourage the "don't want to embarrass my mate" thinking that led to Dean missing a clear RC.

 

[Quarryref]

Papering over cracks.

There are many things that could and should be improved with VAR, but in Mikel Arteta style, this is just a distraction from the underlying problem.

Managers and pundits were no happier before VAR, will be no happier with assigned VAR teams, 10 Assistant VARs or anything else. The elephant in the rooms is

1. a refusal to accept that officials, like players, can make mistakes without being incompetent or corrupt
2. wilfully ignoring the fact that football has grey areas - because you want it to be a foul / ball out / offside, doesn't mean it is
3. pundits and reporters who lazily jump on the bandwagon, because it makes easy headlines and is easier than proper analysis
4. managers who use it is an easy cop out for piss poor team performance, not least because they get away with it (see 3. above)

I used to think it was a cultural football problem, but the Rugby World Cup has shown it's crept in there as well.

 

[JamesL]

Papering over cracks.

There are many things that could and should be improved with VAR, but in Mikel Arteta style, this is just a distraction from the underlying problem.

Managers and pundits were no happier before VAR, will be no happier with assigned VAR teams, 10 Assistant VARs or anything else. The elephant in the rooms is

1. a refusal to accept that officials, like players, can make mistakes without being incompetent or corrupt
2. wilfully ignoring the fact that football has grey areas - because you want it to be a foul / ball out / offside, doesn't mean it is
3. pundits and reporters who lazily jump on the bandwagon, because it makes easy headlines and is easier than proper analysis
4. managers who use it is an easy cop out for piss poor team performance, not least because they get away with it (see 3. above)

I used to think it was a cultural football problem, but the Rugby World Cup has shown it's crept in there as well.

It's a societal problem.

 

[Runner-Ref]

Papering over cracks.

There are many things that could and should be improved with VAR, but in Mikel Arteta style, this is just a distraction from the underlying problem.

Managers and pundits were no happier before VAR, will be no happier with assigned VAR teams, 10 Assistant VARs or anything else. The elephant in the rooms is

1. a refusal to accept that officials, like players, can make mistakes without being incompetent or corrupt
2. wilfully ignoring the fact that football has grey areas - because you want it to be a foul / ball out / offside, doesn't mean it is
3. pundits and reporters who lazily jump on the bandwagon, because it makes easy headlines and is easier than proper analysis
4. managers who use it is an easy cop out for piss poor team performance, not least because they get away with it (see 3. above)

I used to think it was a cultural football problem, but the Rugby World Cup has shown it's crept in there as well.

Yep, agree with this.

You then have the fact that people can't be bothered to actually learn the Laws of The Game. They want the game played to whatever Laws suit them at that time.

Add to the fact that players & managers will in essence cheat/bend the rules in any way they can to gain an advantage. Postecoglu even admitted this the other day. Football isn't a very honest sport.

Then add general society who look to blame everyone else for their failures, as well as a lack fo respect for any form of authority.

The more I think about it, the more I'd seriously like them to consider putting ex-players in the VAR booth. Let them do it how they want it done and see how they get on.

 

[DazN]

Mike Dean made a good point on Sky Sports a few weeks ago that if England was to stop using VAR and other countries kept using it, English football would be left behind. It’s less likely that English refs would be appointed to big European games and teams playing in Europe wouldn’t be prepared for its use.

I meant elite-level everywhere, not just England, but it's not going to happen. Pandora's VAR shaped box has been opened.

 

[DazN]

The more I think about it, the more I'd seriously like them to consider putting ex-players in the VAR booth. Let them do it how they want it done and see how they get on.

I'd like to see a team of ex-players / pundits officiate a game. Provided they are mic-d up of course for our entertainment.

 

[TheFoodieReferee]

I'd like to see a team of ex-players / pundits officiate a game. Provided they are mic-d up of course for our entertainment.

They wouldn't cope, they'd their handbags out in full force the moment someone calls them a helmet or says something to them that they're a cheat/ joke of a ref/ insert whatever else here.

 

[Kevin0954]

Heard today that Stockley Park have been in touch with Bletchley Park, enquiring about an Enigma machine to encode their conversations, just to keep us guessing even more.

 

[RefereeX]

When will people understand that VAR isn't the problem. People's expectations of VAR are the problem.

VAR isn't perfect at the minute, as it should be able to get 100% of factual decisions (such as offside where the player in question has touched the ball and at the minute it has clearly fallen slightly short of that with the Liverpool one) but for as long as subjective decisions are a thing in football, people will complain about referee's, with or without VAR.

We actually get far more decisions correct now with VAR than we ever did without VAR. That is a fact. But people somehow expect to agree with every decision now in a world where 2 fans could watch the same tackle 100 times over and disagree over what it should be. That will never happen.

 

[DazN]

So when VAR doesn’t intervene when there is a case of SFP that the referee misses (Guimaraes elbow on Jorginho) is that our fault for expecting such an intervention?

Until we have transparency with regards to communication VAR is hamstrung and we know we will never get that because it would expose what officials have to tolerate every game from players and coaches which the game likes to pretend doesn’t happen.

 

[santa sangria]

It's a societal problem.

Flamed by the medja

 

[DJIC]

Is this achieving anything, the Independent panel verifying or validating decisions from the weekend/midweek?

Take the Newcastle/Arsenal match, giving the goal was correct, (4 votes to 1), but both Havertz & Guimaraes should have been sent off. Likewise the DOGSO AT gave for Sheffield Wednesday was incorrect. Another subjective view of a subjective decision.

Mirror Headline: "Anthony Taylor to return to Premier League despite clanger after 'demotion'"

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/foo...E&cvid=96bf397320454a63a62197bec6325349&ei=11

VAR pandora's box cannot be put away, even if we all acknowledge we have moved an immediate subjective decision by the on-field referee to a delayed Stockley Park subjective decision, now taking several minutes, everyone in the crowd in the dark, no instant celebration from the crowd or players, sucking the joy out of football etc.

Either way 'football' has no intention of accepting the referees or VARs decision anyway. (Even rugby have lost their respect/authority (Wayne Barnes' horrendous WC experience).

As referees some self reflection, PGMOL have not helped themselves with poor implementation & inexplicable human error at times.

IMHO, we have to get back to "VAR will only get involved with a very, very, very clear & obvious error, which is not in anyway subjective, 100 out of 100 people would view it that way".

 

[zonknz]

As referees some self reflection, PGMOL have not helped themselves with poor implementation & inexplicable human error at times.

I understand what you're saying, but I think there is not inexplicablity about the human errors. VAR is a terrible idea in a sport that wants to be played at pace, and wants to flow.

Tradeoffs were made for speed, over safety i.e speed favoured use of unclear phraseology like "check complete" rather than postive validation.

That's a decision that obviously failed; but it was always going to fail, given enough time elapsed. Now VAR is getting longer, as the process has to now favour safety over speed, due the criticism.

Football has a choice really. Be the game it wants to be, or use VAR. We are some way from being ready to make that choice imho, and it's a question of tv audiences (where VAR delays don't matter as much) versus the -in-stadium experience.

 

[DazN]

I wonder if we will ever see YC offences carry a 10 min binning (a la rugby) where it can then be upgraded to a RC with less impact on the pace of the game.

 

[DJIC]

I wonder if we will ever see YC offences carry a 10 min binning (a la rugby) where it can then be upgraded to a RC with less impact on the pace of the game.

I think rugby may be considering taking away their ‘bunker review’, it has caused more angst & controversy. I really like their quick “is there any reason not to award the try” & the public view on the screen with audio.

not introduced in football as the authorities think fans would start fighting

 

[RustyRef]

I was anti-VAR originally because of some of the reasons mentioned on here. Far too many decisions in football games are subjective and in the opinion of the referee, whereas in most other sports they are a lot more black and white. I've come round to the fact that it is here to stay, but I do think it will always be controversial as there are some match situations where you can show the same clip to 10 referees and 5 will say foul and the other 5 no foul, the potential foul on Gabriel in the Newcastle vs Arsenal game being a classic example. I just can't think of other sports using video reviews where that happens.