The Ref Stop

Offside on a Goal Kick & a question ?

Cheshire Ref said:
I know I am being picky here but since when did placed mean not moving or stationary??

Agree on the history of laws though...they are interesting :)
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Very interesting indeed. The LOTG changed frequently and radically the first 30 years or so since first being written down and have not changed much since then, except for some rewrites in the 1930s and 1990s. Law 11 (off-side) has seen most changes. There have been other additions, decisions and (re)interpretations, but the basic laws have remained relatively unchanged for about a century now.
As for "placed", the Shorter Oxford's first definition for "place" is "Set or position in a particular place or spot". That pretty much means stationary, if you ask me.
 
The Ref Stop
AlexF said:
"Placed". That means "not moving", which in turn means "stationary".

Seriously though, having a good knowledge of the history of the Laws is a very good thing. Why Laws are what they are, when they changed, etc.

Things like that really help your deeper understanding of the Laws, the game, and the intent of the Lawmakers.
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A very good book on the intent of the lawmakers is Stanley Lover's "Association Football-Match Control", (Pelham Books, London, 1978, ISBN: 0720710359, 240 pages), which, though dated, is still a must-read if you ask me. The first few chapters of this book were later condensed in Lover's "Masterclass for Soccer Officials", which I reviewed here: Masterclass
Another good book on the changes to the LOTG is "A History of the Laws of Association Football" by Sir Stanley Rous & Donald Ford. It's from 1974, so subsequent changes have not been included, but it gives great insight into the reasons behind the changes made to that date.
 
I first learned of the "ball doesn't have to be stationary at a goal kick" thing when I heard a ref say an assessor has pulled him up for ordering a retake on a moving ball. "Nothing in the LOTG, apparently" - and, upon checking, I decided he was right. Sure enough, a few games later, I have the same thing and I let it go, waving away a shouting coach, and saying there's nothing in the book, it's just one o' them quirks.

Anyways, having read all the above, and the various links, I've decided I was wrong. There is plenty in the book, just not in the right place. And if everyone challenges me on it, I've full confidence in pointing them to various places that show the ball does have to be stationary at a goal kick.

That's all.
 
would it be fair to say that even if the inferrance was for a stationary ball, that as theres no real advantage to be gained from a moving one, a ref would be inclined to play on as it keeps the game flowing without blowing up for a minor incident?
also would that cause problems if for example a keeper had been doing this without punishment all game, then miskicks one straight to an attacker who scores, and keeper subsequently appeals to the ref that the ball was moving when he kicked it (and hence wants to retake)?... think that would be a tester for your consistency !
 
richard ramjane said:
would it be fair to say that even if the inferrance was for a stationary ball, that as theres no real advantage to be gained from a moving one, a ref would be inclined to play on as it keeps the game flowing without blowing up for a minor incident?
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Dunno about you, but I can get an extra 15-20 yards when kicking a moving ball vs a stationary one...

That's an advantage to my mind. :)
 
AlexF said:
Dunno about you, but I can get an extra 15-20 yards when kicking a moving ball vs a stationary one...

That's an advantage to my mind. :)
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Aren't we talking about a goal kick here?
I'd be interested to see how you could get a ball to roll towards you (in order to gain the momentum/distance/advantage of which you speak) during a goal kick Alex? :D
 
Kes said:
Aren't we talking about a goal kick here?
I'd be interested to see how you could get a ball to roll towards you (in order to gain the momentum/distance/advantage of which you speak) during a goal kick Alex? :D
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Never heard of backspin?;)
 
McTavish said:
Never heard of backspin?;)
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Sure have mate. :)
Please explain to me how and why a goalkeeper or other player might impart "backspin" (or, as asked previously get the ball to roll towards you) during the process of taking a goal kick. ;)
 
Kes said:
Aren't we talking about a goal kick here?
I'd be interested to see how you could get a ball to roll towards you (in order to gain the momentum/distance/advantage of which you speak) during a goal kick Alex? :D
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The initial question was about a goal kick, then it veered off into "how is it an advantage to kick a moving ball?"

To which I responded that there is an advantage in that sense because I can kick a moving ball (whether moving toward or away) much further than a stationary ball.

But yes, a goal kick needs to be stationary. No rolling, no backspin, no nothing.

Reading through the entire conversation would've told you that.
 
AlexF said:
The initial question was about a goal kick, then it veered off into "how is it an advantage to kick a moving ball?"

To which I responded that there is an advantage in that sense because I can kick a moving ball (whether moving toward or away) much further than a stationary ball.

But yes, a goal kick needs to be stationary. No rolling, no backspin, no nothing.

Reading through the entire conversation would've told you that.
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Why thank you AlexF, most kind. :)

In truth, I did read the whole thing, - that's why I wrote what I did. ;)

My question was aimed at another member (not you) and asked him how he figured he could impart backspin to his advantage whilst taking a goal kick.

Reading exactly what I wrote would've told you that. ;)

Incidentally, please can you also explain to me how you can kick a moving ball which is moving away from you, further than you can a stationary one. Genuine question. :)
 
Kes said:
Sure have mate. :)
Please explain to me how and why a goalkeeper or other player might impart "backspin" (or, as asked previously get the ball to roll towards you) during the process of taking a goal kick. ;)
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If you throw a ball away from you with lots of backspin, it will roll towards you. Keepers do it all the time but usually with just enough spin to stop the ball rolling away.
 
McTavish said:
If you throw a ball away from you with lots of backspin, it will roll towards you. Keepers do it all the time but usually with just enough spin to stop the ball rolling away.
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I know that mate.
My question to you however, was how do you do that when taking a goal kick?
I think we both know the answer. ;)
 
Kes said:
Incidentally, please can you also explain to me how you can kick a moving ball which is moving away from you, further than you can a stationary one. Genuine question. :)
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I don't know the physics of it. I just know that I can get an extra 10-15 yards on those, and an extra 20-25 on one rolling toward me.
 
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