The Ref Stop

Multiple 11 asides

Kes said:
One way of looking at it is that both the Observer (and your RDO hopefully?) know that you won't be at your physical and mental "best" by the time your 3rd match comes around I suppose, so were you to be marked "down" for any particular aspect of your performance, you could easily cry "foul" and take them to task over it. Bloody Hell mate I would ... ;)
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I'm also convinced that because the majority of refs in our league are cranky grey haired 50 somethings, that when I show up being in my 20s they think we're gonna give this guy a nightmare. Been there as a player .. karma is a ...
 
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The Ref Stop
Kes said:
One way of looking at it is that both the Observer (and your RDO hopefully?) know that you won't be at your physical and mental "best" by the time your 3rd match comes around I suppose, so were you to be marked "down" for any particular aspect of your performance, you could easily cry "foul" and take them to task over it. Bloody Hell mate I would ... ;)
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Not if you have agreed to take the games you couldn't.

If they were all younger age groups it might be a different matter, but finishing with the 3rd game as U18 is just plain madness, and even more so being observed on it. If you are doing two or more games on the same day you only want to be observed on the first one, I know of lots of referees over the years who have appealed against an observation because it criticised their fitness and / or movement, on the basis it was their second game of the day. That won't wash I'm afraid.

In terms of transferring from overseas, it varies. Jared Gillett obviously came in from the FIFA list in Australia to SG2, but a female FIFA referee from Eastern Europe was placed at L5 in the UK a few years ago. I don't know what criteria is used, but in my experience it is very rare to see anyone come in higher than L4.
 
refeire said:
I actually didn't read the fixtures properly. I have 4 games.

U14, U15, U17 then U18
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I'd pull a hammy if I were you

And tbh after 3 whole games you absolutely could. Your appointments officer needs to look after your wellbeing (as do you as well) and make your workload easier. What you have there is unmanageable.

Could you do 4 games in a day? Seriously? Imo the answer has to be no
 
es1 said:
I'd pull a hammy if I were you

And tbh after 3 whole games you absolutely could. Your appointments officer needs to look after your wellbeing (as do you as well) and make your workload easier. What you have there is unmanageable.

Could you do 4 games in a day? Seriously? Imo the answer has to be no
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Yes, agree, there is a duty of care and a welfare issue here. It is all well and good if a referee volunteers to do these multiple games, but to expect it of them is just plain wrong. Even if your legs hold out until the end, there's the mental element, you can't be anywhere near to your sharpest mentally after 3 or 4 games.
 
Yup. Can't think of a point when I would have been anywhere near willing to take on that many matches in a weekend, let alone a single day.

A league pressuring you to do that and holding the carrot of a recommendation to "proper" leagues over your head is a major safeguarding failure even before we start to add in the fear of failing assessments because of overwork - get away from that league ASAP is my only suggestion at this point. And if you think that's not possible or that digging your feet in would seriously threaten your chances of further development, go over their head to the equivalent of your CFA safeguarding officer and/or your RDO.
 
es1 said:
I'd pull a hammy if I were you

And tbh after 3 whole games you absolutely could. Your appointments officer needs to look after your wellbeing (as do you as well) and make your workload easier. What you have there is unmanageable.

Could you do 4 games in a day? Seriously? Imo the answer has to be no
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So I had a long discussion with the observer this evening. He tried his best to convince me to do them and maintain a positive attitude nd gave me tips to cruise gently through the first 2 and basically use them as a warm up and then get the game mode on in the 17s and 18s.
 
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It's simple. There is a shortage of referees. Appointment is a balancing act. What's good for you, whats good for the league? In this case there is no weight given to what's good for you. But make sure this is the case. If you don't want it let them know and see if it impacts negatively on your appointments. If it does, leave the league.

Having said that, when I appointed, there were members (especially juniors) who asked for as many games as they could get. Do 3 youth centres in the morning and 2 OA lines in the afternoon. They made no attempt to hide they were doing it for the money. The centre referees for the afternoon games didn't mind it at all. I was always told they'd rather have a tired NAR than no AR.
 
RustyRef said:
Not if you have agreed to take the games you couldn't.

If they were all younger age groups it might be a different matter, but finishing with the 3rd game as U18 is just plain madness, and even more so being observed on it. If you are doing two or more games on the same day you only want to be observed on the first one, I know of lots of referees over the years who have appealed against an observation because it criticised their fitness and / or movement, on the basis it was their second game of the day. That won't wash I'm afraid.
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Well it should wash.
As an observer myself I'd be shocked to be told I was observing a referee in his 3rd game of 4 - wouldn't you?
It sure as hell wouldn't happen in my County FA. Totally crap man management ...
 
It's woeful.

If you have to do it, then referee the non observed ones from the centre circle and save yourself for the observed one!
 
one said:
It's simple. There is a shortage of referees. Appointment is a balancing act. What's good for you, whats good for the league? In this case there is no weight given to what's good for you. But make sure this is the case. If you don't want it let them know and see if it impacts negatively on your appointments. If it does, leave the league.

Having said that, when I appointed, there were members (especially juniors) who asked for as many games as they could get. Do 3 youth centres in the morning and 2 OA lines in the afternoon. They made no attempt to hide they were doing it for the money. The centre referees for the afternoon games didn't mind it at all. I was always told they'd rather have a tired NAR than no AR.
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Indeed I am no stranger to 2 games on a Saturday and 3 games on a Sunday, but often U13/13/15 or U12/13/16 etc
 
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refeire said:
So I have spoken to our league observer, he has told me I have gotten these games because they are confident in my ability to do them and that I need to get rid of the negative thoughts and head out with a positive attitude.
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I'll help translate:

In British English - "Sod off"

In American English - "Take a 40-foot walk off of a 30-foot dock."
 
Quite possibly. Unfortunately I have spoken to the allocator who wasn't taking no for an answer.
 
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refeire said:
Quite possibly. Unfortunately I have spoken to the allocator who wasn't taking no for an answer. He said he will not give me 4 fixtures in a row like this again but for this Sunday he needs to be dug out of a hole because 19 refs aren't returning from pre Covid and 14 are on holiday.

The advice was that I need to walk through the U14s and U15s and not get into the penalty areas, stick to the diagonal and treat it as if I have assistants with me.

This guy is quite well known in Irish refereeing and if he wants to he can impede your progress to make sure you can't go anywhere. I'm in a situation where I know what is happening isn't right but I hold none of the cards.
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The games should be going unmanned and teams sorting it themselves. That's the only way anything will ever improve.

Teams will recognise they'll need to abuse less and pay more to have refs.

Walking through games does no one any favours.
 
refeire said:
I actually didn't read the fixtures properly. I have 4 games.

U14, U15, U17 then U18
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If that's all 45 min halves and full size field with no ARs then it's not sensible. I could do it (because I am a machine) but I would be planning on centre circle refereeing rather than the usual all action display. By match three with the whistle and 45 min halves I know I'd be jaded.

Our grassroots games are 30-35-40 min halves and that helps when doing 2-3 games. But with more serious mens or U16 or older, then 2 games with the whistle is really a sensible maximum. I can do 2 with the whistle and a bonus with the flag and still be focused - but if either of those whistles turns into one-of-those-games then mental fatigue will affect the others.

Had a guy show up to whistle U20 second tier as his third match of the day at the weekend. Waste of space. Nowhere near play. The couple of drop balls to the GK saw him 70 yards behind play. Not fair on the teams in the end. Even with ARs.
 
santa sangria said:
If that's all 45 min halves and full size field with no ARs then it's not sensible. I could do it (because I am a machine) but I would be planning on centre circle refereeing rather than the usual all action display. By match three with the whistle and 45 min halves I know I'd be jaded.

Our grassroots games are 30-35-40 min halves and that helps when doing 2-3 games. But with more serious mens or U16 or older, then 2 games with the whistle is really a sensible maximum. I can do 2 with the whistle and a bonus with the flag and still be focused - but if either of those whistles turns into one-of-those-games then mental fatigue will affect the others.

Had a guy show up to whistle U20 second tier as his third match of the day at the weekend. Waste of space. Nowhere near play. The couple of drop balls to the GK saw him 70 yards behind play. Not fair on the teams in the end. Even with ARs.
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U14 + U15 - 35 min halves
U17 + U18 - 45 min halves

Full size pitches, no ARs. I will not be running and was encouraged not to, that basically for the U14/15 I'm there just so the league can accept the results.
 
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Not being funny refeire, but this sounds like bullying. If you're moving to England, then just put your foot down and say no. If you get no games then so be it. You shouldn't be bullied in a game to change a decision and you shouldn't be bullied into doing all of these games in this manner.

And that's advice from a grey haired cranky 50 something
 
refeire said:
U14 + U15 - 35 min halves
U17 + U18 - 45 min halves

In good news I have managed to defer the assessment on that last one. It's beyond me why these fixtures can't be postponed until such a time as they can be officiated by someone who will actually be able to do their job as it should be done.
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Well at least that's something. :) 👍
 
es1 said:
I'd pull a hammy if I were you

And tbh after 3 whole games you absolutely could. Your appointments officer needs to look after your wellbeing (as do you as well) and make your workload easier. What you have there is unmanageable.

Could you do 4 games in a day? Seriously? Imo the answer has to be no
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Whilst I agree with the previous comments regarding being g observed after already doing games that day being madness, I'm not having that 4 games in a day cant be done or done effectively.

Youth football your going to be doing 3 or 4km a game max. Less running, shorter games etc. 12-15km over a whole day. Mentally you'd be a bit bored of it all but it's perfectly possible IF you are at the required fitness levels to take it on. Its not a big physical ask if you're a regular runner for example or just physically fit
 
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