The Ref Stop

Multiple 11 asides

refeire said:
Funny you say that, I have recently had the opportunity to move back to England (where i am originally from). I feel though that because of my age now making it to the higher levels won't be realistic and I'd have to start from scratch all over again. In Ireland though it is still realistic (but heavily reliant on pleasing the right people) due to the lack of younger referees and there being less layers to the top.
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at 26 you'd definitely not be too young.

i started at 22 and am now a level 4 at 33 (and have been for 7 years), it's just my own ability weighing me down now!

if you're good enough you could easily be in the football league by the time you're 40 (or earlier if you're really good)
 
The Ref Stop
refeire said:
I'm 26. I feel I'm running out of time to seriously make an impact in refereeing hence why these observations need to be nailed. Regarding going to OA, there is a "serious" OA league and a not so serious OA league.

To get into the serious league you have to be chosen (usually sent off by recommendation from the underage league i.e. where i am now)

To get into the not so serious OA league would be possible, but you will be refereeing hungover 40 yr olds who still think they are 23 and it's not uncommon for these games to get very nasty.
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Your league appointing officer needs to put some serious thought into why there is a local OA league that is so stuffed with referees that they only accept them on recommendation, yet his league needs to be appointing referees to 3 matches every matchday. If you want your league to be taken seriously, you need to act like it's a real league - and no real league would be happy with a referee turning up to one of their most prestigious games with 2 matches already in their legs!

Does your "non-serious" league also recommend to the league you would like to be in? Unfortunately, I think that you might have to consider that as your route through? Alternately, keep your youth league sweet, get that recommendation from them ASAP and then leave them in your dust!
 
es1 said:
at 26 you'd definitely not be too young.

i started at 22 and am now a level 4 at 33 (and have been for 7 years), it's just my own ability weighing me down now!

if you're good enough you could easily be in the football league by the time you're 40 (or earlier if you're really good)
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Pardon my ignorance but it's not clear to me from the FA site. Is it that all referees from Premier League to League 2 are level 1? i.e. what is the highest game you could be appointed to as a level 4 or 3?
 
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GraemeS said:
Your league appointing officer needs to put some serious thought into why there is a local OA league that is so stuffed with referees that they only accept them on recommendation, yet his league needs to be appointing referees to 3 matches every matchday. If you want your league to be taken seriously, you need to act like it's a real league - and no real league would be happy with a referee turning up to one of their most prestigious games with 2 matches already in their legs!

Does your "non-serious" league also recommend to the league you would like to be in? Unfortunately, I think that you might have to consider that as your route through? Alternately, keep your youth league sweet, get that recommendation from them ASAP and then leave them in your dust!
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Being a predominantly youth league they accept there will be a shortage but they get by with the older referees they have who won't be progressing onto any OA leagues, there is a handful of younger referees but not many.
 
refeire said:
Pardon my ignorance but it's not clear to me from the FA site. Is it that all referees from Premier League to League 2 are level 1? i.e. what is the highest game you could be appointed to as a level 4 or 3?

I started at 20, I imagine there won't be any recognition of previous experience here in Ireland and I'd have to start at 7 in England?
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the ref structure is something like this (though happy to be corrected...)

Select group 1 - Prem league
Select group 2 - Championship
Level 1 - League 1 and 2
Level 2a - conference (step 1)
Level 2b - conference north / south (step 2)
Level 3 - various regional step 3 and 4 leagues
Level 4 - various regional step 5, 6 and 7 leagues
Levels 5 - 7 - local leagues, some also at Step 7 at the highest level
Level 9 - trainee ref

within that from level 4 an up you have the opportunity to specialise as an assitant as well

no i dont think your time in Ireland will count for much at all and you'll likely start at level 7
 
es1 said:
the ref structure is something like this (though happy to be corrected...)

Select group 1 - Prem league
Select group 2 - Championship
Level 1 - League 1 and 2
Level 2a - conference (step 1)
Level 2b - conference north / south (step 2)
Level 3 - various regional step 3 and 4 leagues
Level 4 - various regional step 5, 6 and 7 leagues
Levels 5 - 7 - local leagues, some also at Step 7 at the highest level
Level 9 - trainee ref

within that from level 4 an up you have the opportunity to specialise as an assitant as well

no i dont think your time in Ireland will count for much at all and you'll likely start at level 7
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I imagined there were a lot more layers than 1-7. That's interesting, thank you!
 
es1 said:
no i dont think your time in Ireland will count for much at all and you'll likely start at level 7
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Time in Ireland certainly won't, but the same can be said of someone who's sat at L7 in England without moving up as well. If you've done promotions or similar in Ireland then that would be taken into account in you moved and result in you not starting quite from scratch.
 
GraemeS said:
Time in Ireland certainly won't, but the same can be said of someone who's sat at L7 in England without moving up as well. If you've done promotions or similar in Ireland then that would be taken into account in you moved and result in you not starting quite from scratch.
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i dont know to be honest, i know a bulgarian ref who was very high up in their system (2nd tier i think) who came over here and started at L5 (obviously not L7 i know but not that high either)
 
es1 said:
i dont know to be honest, i know a bulgarian ref who was very high up in their system (2nd tier i think) who came over here and started at L5 (obviously not L7 i know but not that high either)
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Classic "English Exceptionalism"... We're the home of the "best league in the world", "home of football" and all that. Jared Gillet came to us from Australia, having refereed multiple international matches and...started in the Championship for 2 years, while the PL was in the middle of struggling to provide enough referees to also supply VAR. You're never going to get a straight transfer unfortunately, but a few steps up the ladder is possible.
 
es1 said:
i dont know to be honest, i know a bulgarian ref who was very high up in their system (2nd tier i think) who came over here and started at L5 (obviously not L7 i know but not that high either)
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That's crazy, but it's the FA's train set I suppose and they call the shots. Not sure how the Bulgarian game is, the Irish game anyway prides itself on being very physical (doesn't stop 100 "in the back ref!" calls every match mind), I'm not sure it's a million miles away from the English game though.

In comparison, Irish referee Alan Kelly went from Ireland's top league straight into the MLS top flight and was even handed 2 MLS cup finals.
 
GraemeS said:
How much slack are you going to get in the U18 game for the fact it's your 3rd in a row? From the players? Not a chance. Managers? Nope. Observer?
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Very likely that the least slack will come from the observer I'd say. My RA is very against doubling up (for several reasons) but acknowledge that they don't have the authority to prevent referees doing so.
 
refeire said:
So I have spoken to our league observer, he has told me I have gotten these games because they are confident in my ability to do them and that I need to get rid of the negative thoughts and head out with a positive attitude.

Honestly I am not looking forward to it whatsoever. My biggest fear is that if I actually tell them I am not willing to do them then I can kiss goodbye to getting any U17/18 games for a very long time, be it 3 in a row or a single. Our allocation seems to work that if you piss off the allocator by turning down the fixtures as planned you are resigned to small sided or U13/14 girls games for a long time. I went a long time where I only seemed to get U12 girls games.
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Had to tone this post down. Don't get hooked into getting sh!t shifts for the promise of getting better games. It doesn't work.
 
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es1 said:
wow so different to england! i dont think you'd be observed at all on a youth game
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You don't outside the initial mentoring, or if there is an issue reported to the CFA.

I haven't done a u18 or below outside the initial 5 matches.
 
refeire said:
Funny you say that, I have recently had the opportunity to move back to England (where i am originally from). I feel though that because of my age now making it to the higher levels won't be realistic
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Come to Wales, apparently you've got more chance of getting to International here than over in England! ;)
 
one said:
Had to tone this post down. Don't get hooked into getting sh!t shifts for the promise of getting better games. It doesn't work.
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They don't even make that promise. The fixtures are published and that's that. I have noticed though that I've never gotten any of the favourable matches and it's the same names that pop up to do certain fixture types all the time. I asked in the past to try and get the higher games but never did. Now they are giving them in quantities I can't possibly chew .. waiting for me to say no to them then set the platform for "well we gave them to you in the past and you turned them down"?

I noticed a long time ago I was getting the bottom of the barrel stuff. There wasn't much I could do about it though so kept quiet thinking better this than nothing at all.
 
I did three adult games, 12 2 and 4, just before the first covid restrictions

Legs fine but mentally I really found myself not caring in the second half of the third game, all my brain was seeing was flashes of colours, it rained all day and none of the games were that exciting.

I love my reffing and never want the game to end, however that day i celebrated inside with every passing minute counting down

Of course everybody is different, fitness and mental state but i would not have enjoyed an observation on game 3
 
refeire said:
So I have spoken to our league observer, he has told me I have gotten these games because they are confident in my ability to do them and that I need to get rid of the negative thoughts and head out with a positive attitude.

Honestly I am not looking forward to it whatsoever. My biggest fear is that if I actually tell them I am not willing to do them then I can kiss goodbye to getting any U17/18 games for a very long time, be it 3 in a row or a single. Our allocation seems to work that if you piss off the allocator by turning down the fixtures as planned you are resigned to small sided or U13/14 girls games for a long time. I went a long time where I only seemed to get U12 girls games.
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One way of looking at it is that both the Observer (and your RDO hopefully?) know that you won't be at your physical and mental "best" by the time your 3rd match comes around I suppose, so were you to be marked "down" for any particular aspect of your performance, you could easily cry "foul" and take them to task over it. Bloody Hell mate I would ... ;)
 
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