Liverpool v City - Klopp sending off

[CA1992]

Just a question, was Klopp allowed to come back after Full Time onto the pitch like he did? He approached AT and his assistants to shake hands as they were about to walk down the tunnel

I was thinking this as well - why was he allowed to return to the FOP at the final whistle? He certainly had something to say to AT (who was having none of it and walked straight past him) before going on his parade around the pitch in full focus of the cameras.

Message sent to grassroots managers - if you are dismissed during the game, feel free to come back on at FT and have another go at the officials.

 

[Anubis]

I was thinking this as well - why was he allowed to return to the FOP at the final whistle? He certainly had something to say to AT (who was having none of it and walked straight past him) before going on his parade around the pitch in full focus of the cameras.

Message sent to grassroots managers - if you are dismissed during the game, feel free to come back on at FT and have another go at the officials.

Pretty sure its not that he was allowed, and more, he simply did it anyway

 

[RefIADad]

I was thinking this as well - why was he allowed to return to the FOP at the final whistle? He certainly had something to say to AT (who was having none of it and walked straight past him) before going on his parade around the pitch in full focus of the cameras.

Message sent to grassroots managers - if you are dismissed during the game, feel free to come back on at FT and have another go at the officials.

I’d hope that Taylor would add that to his match report and that the league/FA would consider that when determining final punishment.

I also expect to see Bigfoot and the Loch Ness monster this week.

 

[bloovee]

Pundits in general do seem to be praising Anthony Taylor on his performance so it is somewhat surprising seeing critisom from some quarters on here.

I guess you really can't please everyone. Sadly I did not see the game but apart from the disallowed goal, the game seemed to be largely controversial free. Red card for Klopp was obviously the right decision, there is just no excuse to shout like that in someone's ear even if the linesman did make a mistake, will the FA come down hard on him? I doubt it.

If ignoring fouls is being free from controversy, it was controversial free.

 

[st john]

I think the Officials mistake, as such, was failing to indicate his decisions properly. Its ok to let a game a flow as long as the players know what you've seen and why you aren't stopping the game.
If there is contact and an infringement, blow your whistle.
If there is contact and an infringement, but you are happy the impeded player has got his pass away to the intended target, or his team are in possession and going forward then play on BUT let everyone know you've seen the foul and signal the advantage.
If there is contact and you don't see it as foul then a firm shake of the head and a verbal 'No Foul'.

I think people were left guessing on Sunday and couldn't which see which way any decision was going to go.

 

[GraemeS]

So I was right. You've got nothing. Speculative fanzone stuff...

If you believe in the healing power of the counter attack then yeah, nothing to see here.

 

[ChasObserverRefDeveloper]

If ignoring fouls is being free from controversy, it was controversial free.

Unfortunately I did not see the game as I have been in hospital for four days for a major operation. Having just caught up with this thread, I am worried the anaesthetic has not worn off - I think I just read Bloovee accusing another poster of "biased cobblers". Silly, I know.

 

[RustyRef]

intetestingly, the topic of stopping play to sanction a manager came up last week

i remember typing, could understand stopping play to issue a red

Surely this was NOT a case to stop play, City most certainly on attack then effectively being penalised through no doing of their own


the brief clips I saw, sadly the referee was a rabbit on the headlights.

Somehow one of the planets top referees was unable to identify real time not one, but two run of the mill fouls in the same five second passage of play, both retrospectively would have been awarded as freekicks on review

I think the offence was so severe he felt he had no choice but to stop immediately, the level of anger on Klopp's face might well have made him think his mate was about to get assaulted.

Completely disagree with rabbit in headlights, whatever anyone thinks about the decisions Taylor looks pretty much unflappable to me. I can think of other SG1 referees that might have melted in that kind of temperature, but don't think that applies to Taylor.

 

[BCMilan]

Inconsistent or not, that overrule for the Foden goal was not in keeping with the game. In isolation I believe that it was probably a foul but whenever I’ve been an AR, referees in the pre match always say to me give fouls based on how they are refereeing the game.

AT was letting these sorts of things go throughout the match and then when the goal happens, it gets analysed within an inch of its life and AT creates his own inconsistency under pressure of VAR. VAR should be basing their recommended reviews on the tolerance level of the referee

exactly ! The game needs to decide whether they want matches to flow (and let the odd thing go) or whether they want a stop / start game where every decision is analysed.

 

[RustyRef]

Quit the fan nonsense folks or you know what will happen.

 

[RustyRef]

exactly ! The game needs to decide whether they want matches to flow (and let the odd thing go) or whether they want a stop / start game where every decision is analysed.

I think that comes back to my previous point. If VAR asks Taylor whether he has seen the shirt pull and he says no it is always going to get overturned.

 

[Mooseybaby]

Some things in life are certain - Taxation, death and logging in to find certain user playing the "City are hard done by" card in every thread as usual!

Unfortunately didn't see much of the game as "dad cabs" and cooking the Sunday roast got in the way. Did manage to see the disallowed City goal. Would be disappointed if that had been allowed to stand against my team, clear shirt pull, VAR did it's job on the occasion, although needs to be applied more consistently.

FA/PL seriously need to throw the book at Klopp, the sight of him ragging at ARs & the 4th official seems to be a regular occurrence!

 

[Anubis]

I think the offence was so severe he felt he had no choice but to stop immediately, the level of anger on Klopp's face might well have made him think his mate was about to get assaulted.

Completely disagree with rabbit in headlights, whatever anyone thinks about the decisions Taylor looks pretty much unflappable to me. I can think of other SG1 referees that might have melted in that kind of temperature, but don't think that applies to Taylor.

Course he wont melt, safe in the knowledge he can miss what he likes, the safety net will bail him out

two clear obvious fk, both seen clearly, both deemed legal, in the same five sec of play, is very poor

and thats before we take it back slightly further to a rourine corner being given as a goal kick



he cant lose

 

[Ben448844]

To summarise my opinions:

AT had a decent game. The gane massively benefitted from his performance. He set out to let it flow and achieved that without any bad tackles (Thiago slipped before people bring that up and I'm a lifelong City supporter). Yes that broughtbmore emotion into the game, but managers have to be able to handle that. Klopp was disgraceful. I should hope he watches that back and feels total shame at his behaviour. Pep wasn't an angel either. But they're professional managers. Their job is to manage people and by behaving like they did they showed themself in a very poor light.

Citys complaints that AT let alot go and then went against that style on the VAR call is a valid one. We can all see that as a sensible criticism. But equally we can see why the foul was given. Sometimes both options are either right or wrong. Football is not a perfect science. I accepted the decision straight away and I understand the officials and Citys logic equally.

I agree with @RustyRef, referees are their to facilitate the game. It was a brilliant mat h as it always is between the 2 teams and the officials enhanced that. People all over the world are loving the tempo of that gane because that's what makes the PL special. I also think the referees at the WC have been instructed to let the games flow more and perhaps that's why he's chosen to do just that in probably the biggest game before the WC. He's got his eyes on a world cup semi/final.

 

[Tim Punter]

It was actually worse than biased cobblers, it was unbsubstantiated accusations.

Anyway, if we're going to do this, did VAR check whether Salah handled the ball for his goal?

Hard to prove, but a ball that was just dropping vertically was suddenly in front of him.

If I really wanted to put the blue specs on, I'd look at Salah's thigh knocking Cancelo's just as he's about to play the ball.
(Slo mo on a City fan site but apparently from the Liverpool video)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1582020065461153792

Have watched the 3 minute video showing every angle of the goal. None of which show the ball touching his arm, so not sure what VAR was supposed to do?

 

[RustyRef]

Course he wont melt, safe in the knowledge he can miss what he likes, the safety net will bail him out

two clear obvious fk, both seen clearly, both deemed legal, in the same five sec of play, is very poor

and thats before we take it back slightly further to a rourine corner being given as a goal kick



he cant lose

It wasn't a routine corner, it was the slightest touch that took multiple replays to be sure there had been a touch, real time that is incredibly difficult for the officials to spot, something that even the pundits agreed with, so I would expect at least some empathy from fellow match officials.

 

[one]

If I really wanted to put the blue specs on...

I wasn't aware you ever took them off

 

[GraemeS]

I agree with @RustyRef, referees are their to facilitate the game.

You don't need a qualified and experienced referee if that is your only objective. Any random person with a whistle and a stopwatch can time 45 minutes twice - boom, game facilitated.

The reason there are less than 5 people in the country who would be trusted to officiate is because there are supposed to be very few people capable of making correct decisions in those circumstances. AT has shown that either he no longer belongs on that list, or he for some reason thinks the laws have changed and he should no longer give pulling fouls.

 

[RustyRef]

You don't need a qualified and experienced referee if that is your only objective. Any random person with a whistle and a stopwatch can time 45 minutes twice - boom, game facilitated.

The reason there are less than 5 people in the country who would be trusted to officiate is because there are supposed to be very few people capable of making correct decisions in those circumstances. AT has shown that either he no longer belongs on that list, or he for some reason thinks the laws have changed and he should no longer give pulling fouls.

Or alternatively, and the actual reality, is that he has been told by PGMOL to let the game flow.

Gary Neville touched on it during commentary, saying that it would need a referee at the very top of his game and confidence to be able to referee the game that way. And he said that Taylor was exactly that.

The same will happen at the World Cup, perhaps not to the same extent, but the referees have been told not to give free kicks just for contact, there has to be consequence of the contact. If you raise the bar and let a lot go there will inevitably be more mistakes, just as if you have a low bar and penalise everything there is a lot lower chance of you missing fouls.

 

[GraemeS]

Or alternatively, and the actual reality, is that he has been told by PGMOL to let the game flow.

Gary Neville touched on it during commentary, saying that it would need a referee at the very top of his game and confidence to be able to referee the game that way. And he said that Taylor was exactly that.

The same will happen at the World Cup, perhaps not to the same extent, but the referees have been told not to give free kicks just for contact, there has to be consequence of the contact. If you raise the bar and let a lot go there will inevitably be more mistakes, just as if you have a low bar and penalise everything there is a lot lower chance of you missing fouls.

He missed two instances of consequential contact that led to the City goal and had to be rescued by VAR.

Klopps reaction was unacceptable, but him missing the easy foul there is an excellent example of how you can't just look at a foul and assume you can ignore it because it won't be consequential.

I don't even have to dig through clips for all the other moments - 2 of the 3 key events in the match come off him deciding he can just ignore a law because it doesn't feel consequential, before being almost immediately proven wrong. The only thing this is proof of is that trying to referee to secretly adjusted laws rather than the book causes you more problems than it solves.