Spot on James. Also, just to touch upon the early pitch inspection, there is nothing more frustrating for clubs at the time of inclement weather when the Referee is not about to confirm that the game can go ahead etc. I was at a game recently which had passed a local pitch inspection in the morning, but continued to rain. The Referee arrived at approximately 1.35pm for a 3pm kick off, but didn’t go out onto the pitch until 2.10pm. Fortunately, the pitch was still playable - but only just!
Level Four - go for it or no?
- Thread starter JBeil
- Start date
Remember we're talking about a few levels up though. Yes, when doing U23 teams for the Step 7-5 clubs, I've had a few assistants who are holding a flag for the first time, so have no issue with them wanting a fuller briefing.
But to be an L5 assisting an L4 ref, you at the very least need to have done 5 lines to get to that point. And once you're an L4 being sent to run lines for other L4s or an L3, I'd be surprised if anyone hasn't got at least 30 lines under their belt.
If I knew my assistants were that qualified and the FA had published standard procedures, I reckon my pre-match could be: "Standard procedure, apart from I would like full match record from Senior AR, eyes & ears at all times from Junior. I like ARs to lead me in fouls within 10-15 yards of themselves wherever possible, so please try to take the lead if you see something that close to you". Done, less than a minute!
Referees on Contrib & National League North & South usually take a full 10 mins to deliver their pre-match instructions & these are directed to experienced AR’s & specialist AR’s!!. Consequently, there are very few (if any) contradictory signals etc & appropriate support provided at appropriate occasions. The challenge for many L4 Referee’s is that there are many occasions when their AR’s are experienced L5 Referee’s who don’t really want to listen to pre-match instructions of any length of time. However, if there is an inexperienced L7-L6 on the other line, then as you say, fuller instructions would be appropriate.
ChasObserverRefDeveloper
Regular Contributor
The FA recommended instructions for NAR's and for CAR's are available on www.thefa.com
R
Runner-Ref
Guest
Being at L3 games 90mins before kick off was always standard during my time. Was generally 60 mins for L4. There is indeed a lot of time spent standing around (although the time is what you make of it), but you have to take into account that there will be paying spectators in attendance. The clubs need to know whether to let them in, as well as get the burger vans going etc
Pre-match was generally 5-10 mins, regardless of who I was working with (you'll find the same at National League, Football League & Premier League). Assuming someone at L5 on the line knows what they're doing or what you want from them is very very risky.
Pre-match was generally 5-10 mins, regardless of who I was working with (you'll find the same at National League, Football League & Premier League). Assuming someone at L5 on the line knows what they're doing or what you want from them is very very risky.
There's often more to do at steps 3 and 4 than there is at step 5. At games with big crowds they sometimes need to have a safety briefing and the match officials have to be involved in that, just one example off the top of my head. There's also a bigger implication if someone gets delayed in traffic, for a step 5 game you're looking at a level 5 or below referee needing to be replaced. At steps 4 and 3 it is a level 4 that has passed a fitness test and undergone mandatory training and briefings that needs to be replaced.
It just generally gets earlier the higher the level you go. When I was on the National League Premier it wasn't uncommon for referees to want you there for midday for 3pm KOs and 5:30 for 7:45 KOs.
12 o'clock for a 3pm - that's insane.
I believe FL refs only get there at 1pm for a 3pm (Steve Bennet told me when i lined a charity game with him once).
What would a ref do for 3 hours prior?
Eat sandwiches
Steve Bennett retired 13 years ago, refereeing has move on a lot since then.
If you were lucky you were with a team off officials you got on with, and the time passed quickly just chatting with your colleagues, club officials, etc. I can remember one game at Barnet where we sat in the bar chatting with Dermot Gallagher (observer) and Paul Taylor (referee coach) and the time passed so quickly we were almost late for team sheets, two very funny guys with a lot of refereeing related stories to tell. There were a couple of referees that were very difficult to work with so you'd just sit watching Football Focus or Soccer Saturday, but this was the exception rather than the norm.
To give another reason, I was 4th official for Dartford vs Barnet in the Conference Premier and we'd all arranged to meet at 17:30 for a 19:45 kick off. The other 3 officials were all coming from South of the river, I left home from memory around 16:00 for what should be no more than a 1 hour journey. There were issues on both the Blackwall Tunnel and Dartford Crossing and I had the journey from hell, and eventually made it around kick off time. Had we arranged to meet at 18:30 I'd have been there for half time, need I say any more? And I would add the referee was one of the more relaxed ones who is a current EPL official, had it been one of the more textbook referees he'd have been going into absolute meltdown if I wasn't there 2 hours before.
I was a 4O in the 1990's at York (then in the FL). The report time was 12.00 for a 3.00 kick off and was explained to me as such. If you plan to get their 3 hours before and their is a traffic issue of 60 mins; you will still be there 2 hours before, plenty of time for all pre match routines as a AR / 4O. Since the AR and ref tend to travel in excess of 1.5 hours to matches, it seems sensible.
Also at EFL matches, you have the safety briefings from the police / Safety officer, which can be intense. As 4O you had to listen for the code words "Can the steward Mr White report to .....", etc which wouldn't mean anything to the fans, but the safety crew they knew what was happening. This briefing was 20 mins in those days (after Hillsborough), so it is maore likely 40 mins now.
I've always made a point of excluding traffic issues, there's always a chance of that happening and there's only so much reasonable buffer to include. Your example is a 1 hour journey that happened to take 2 1/2 hours - but I've been stuck in M25 traffic and on another day that could take 3 1/2 hours, you'd be arriving around half time anyway and the ref on the day would just have to make a decision one way or the other. It's not the end of the world. Unless they're putting me up in a hotel near the ground and paying me enough that I don't need to work the previous day, there's always a chance of traffic getting in the way, that's not an issue that can be certainly solved with the kind of money at the levels L4s work at.
Your first example is much more what I was thinking of. If I was a ref who has had to arrange special childcare, or to get off work early, or had gone out of my way to account for any one of hundreds of valid non-football considerations, I'd be absolutely livid to find out I'd been summoned to the ground that early so that we could sit in a bar and swap war stories for an hour before doing anything useful. I'm irritated enough when it does happen to me and I imagine that I could have had a few more games of FIFA before leaving! Maybe I'm just a "difficult" ref, but that doesn't particularly interest me - and on a wider note, I worry that it genuinely weeds out officials who would otherwise be excellent refs if they just had a little more leeway in when they need to leave the house.
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You're not getting many L4s working as 4O in League 1 and 2 I wouldn't have thought? This is kind of my overarching point - all the stuff that is valid and sensible at higher levels is forced at L4 not because it's needed, but because it's a test of commitment and expectations. But because it's without the reward of glamorous and interesting fixtures that should come with that level of commitment, it just ends up feeling testing.
ChasObserverRefDeveloper
Regular Contributor
Our local Step 5/6 League mandates team sheets to be handed to the referee an hour before the scheduled kick off time, and match officials to arrive no later than 90 minutes before kick off, which all appears sensible.
Most referees ask their AR's to arrive around 1.15 for a 3.00 start, and around 6.00/6.15 for 7.45 kick off's (recognising that most officials come direct from work)
Most referees ask their AR's to arrive around 1.15 for a 3.00 start, and around 6.00/6.15 for 7.45 kick off's (recognising that most officials come direct from work)
It isn't a test of commitment because it isn't set by the authorities beyond the minimum time specified, it is down to the referee for each game. And ultimately any official who doesn't like it can choose to vote with their feet, no one is forced to be a L4 or above. Indeed, an AR could in theory say no if the rules say the minimum time is 60 minutes and the referee asks for 90 minutes. Very rare that happens though as a) it isn't good for a working relationship and b) that AR is going to be in serious hot water if he aims for 60 minutes before and actually arrives 30 minutes before, especially if it happens more than once. I had ARs telling me what time they were leaving home and I knew they were going to be late, even for the minimum time set by the FA, they'd have to speed and have a lot of good luck to get there on time. They are just setting themselves up for a fall.
Let's remember that this topic is a referee asking for advice on whether to go for L4 or not. Far better that he hears how it actually is from people that have been there and done it rather than being told how it should be
R
Runner-Ref
Guest
Ultimately, if you want to be L4 and above, you need to have flexibility in your approach to things like time of arrival etc. Once you get to L4, refereeing almost becomes less of a hobby and more like a 2nd career. It takes a lot of time out of your week and sacrifices need to be made. Lots of NL, FL & PL officials are either single or divorced. The ones who aren't, have very very understanding partners.
If you want to be able to arrive 10 mins before kick off and shoot off straight after the game, L4 and above isn't going to be for you.
If you want to be able to arrive 10 mins before kick off and shoot off straight after the game, L4 and above isn't going to be for you.