A&H

Kids And Wearing Spectacles (Again!!)

And why should referees follow the same rules? Are you taking off your watch, too? I think this is a grossly overused mantra.

While I agree it is better for refs who need vision help to wear contacts (which is what you see at the top levels--usually the same with players, too), I think it is absurd to say no one can ref if they need to wear spectacles (not everyone can use contacts). While it makes sense to say it is better for players to wear sports goggles if they need them to see, the same doesn't apply to referees who are not engaged in a contact sport while they officiate and are not using their head on the ball. The referee choice on spectacles needs to be based on the role--the glasses that provide the best ability to see.

(Personally, I need glasses. My eyes cannot tolerate contacts on a full time basis. But I almost always wear my contacts to officiate. In high pollen season, I'm not always able to wear them.)
Exactly this. My vision is arguably marginally worse with contacts than with glasses, particularly under floodlights or if I've had to wear them all day ahead of a match - but there's not a chance I'd turn up to a match and try to defend wearing glasses.

Only once have I even worn them to walk in to the changing rooms. I put my contacts in while getting changed and of course immediately as soon as the match starts, the manager is claiming I can't see because I was wearing glasses earlier!
 
The Referee Store
And why should referees follow the same rules? Are you taking off your watch, too? I think this is a grossly overused mantra.

While I agree it is better for refs who need vision help to wear contacts (which is what you see at the top levels--usually the same with players, too), I think it is absurd to say no one can ref if they need to wear spectacles (not everyone can use contacts). While it makes sense to say it is better for players to wear sports goggles if they need them to see, the same doesn't apply to referees who are not engaged in a contact sport while they officiate and are not using their head on the ball. The referee choice on spectacles needs to be based on the role--the glasses that provide the best ability to see.

(Personally, I need glasses. My eyes cannot tolerate contacts on a full time basis. But I almost always wear my contacts to officiate. In high pollen season, I'm not always able to wear them.)
For me its a matter of looking professional. I am aware not everybody is in it to look professional or cares.

its in the laws of the game that the referee can wear a watch so that arguement doesn’t compare with wearing glasses.

its similar to a referee who wears jackets on the park, again its just not professional
 
For me its a matter of looking professional. I am aware not everybody is in it to look professional or cares.

its in the laws of the game that the referee can wear a watch so that arguement doesn’t compare with wearing glasses.

its similar to a referee who wears jackets on the park, again its just not professional

I disagree.

The "looking professional" issue is a personal one or at the very most, something that might be in the mind of an observer.

At grass roots, teams just want an impartial person to be on the pitch who knows the laws. Whether he's carrying a couple of stone over, wears glasses or has his shirt tucked in or not can all contribute to the overall "professional" look (or not as the case might be) but in the grand scheme of things nobody actually cares - it's how well (or not) you do your job that counts for most. FWIW, I've worn a black Nike waterproof jacket complete with County badge whilst refereeing in inclement weather before and nobody ever bats an eyelid. ;)

I get the whole "looking the part" piece mate, but sometimes that's not always possible. I've refereed many a football player who doesn't "look the part" either. :D

The analogy you tried to draw with wearing a watch doesn't really work either, since Law 5 also states that referees can't wear jewellery - just like the players can't. Besides which, this thread is about players wearing glasses, not referees.

The benefit to the game of a referee wearing glasses when weighed up against the safety risks are more than arguable in my opinion whereas the same cannot be said for players - particularly youngsters. :)
 
For me its a matter of looking professional. I am aware not everybody is in it to look professional or cares.
That's amazingly condescending and naive. Looking professional is in the eye of the beholder. Being able to see well is simply more important that what some people think looks professional. As I said above, I think it is better for refs who need vision assistance to wear contacts if they can. But I'd hardly say that we should boot refs out when that is not a practical option. And at lower levels, I think it is really, really silly to waste any time worrying about. (Just about as dumb as how excited some folks in the US got about it looking unprofessional when the trio did not all have the same sleeve length. That silliness faded away here when those folks realized the frequency that different sleeve lengths are worn by refs at the top levels--although there are still a few dinosaurs who get excited about it at lower levels.)

Going back to your analogy to players, if that's what you're going to rely on, that would mean you'd be OK with refs wearing sports goggles instead of regular glasses. That's just plain ridiculous, as refs should be choosing glasses that work for their role, not for the player's role.
 
That's amazingly condescending and naive. Looking professional is in the eye of the beholder. Being able to see well is simply more important that what some people think looks professional. As I said above, I think it is better for refs who need vision assistance to wear contacts if they can. But I'd hardly say that we should boot refs out when that is not a practical option. And at lower levels, I think it is really, really silly to waste any time worrying about. (Just about as dumb as how excited some folks in the US got about it looking unprofessional when the trio did not all have the same sleeve length. That silliness faded away here when those folks realized the frequency that different sleeve lengths are worn by refs at the top levels--although there are still a few dinosaurs who get excited about it at lower levels.)

Going back to your analogy to players, if that's what you're going to rely on, that would mean you'd be OK with refs wearing sports goggles instead of regular glasses. That's just plain ridiculous, as refs should be choosing glasses that work for their role, not for the player's role.
I don’t think we should boot refs out and again have stated that it looks unprofessional to me. Can’t and won’t speak for anyone else.

Cant say I’d be okay with refs wearing sports glasses. If I’m using the laws to show we can wear a watch, id then also have to say theres a specific law that states players can wear sports or protective glasses. There is none for referees.
 
https://www.teamgrassroots.co.uk/fa-guidance-for-spectacles-and-goggles-in-football gives The FA position, and allows latitude at youth level, as is the case with some aspects of player clothing also.

That's already been quoted above Chas but also brings me back to the real crux of the matter which, before we even look at the overall safety aspect is this:

The guidance given above contains this sentence - Children and Grassroots Football: Whilst The FA recommends Polycarbonate lenses we recognise this may be an issue for children playing in grassroots football.

What does that even mean? Does it mean that even with Polycarbonate lenses there's still a safety issue for kids? Or does it mean that acquiring them instead of normal glasses might be an issue for them? Far too ambiguous (in my opinion anyway).

Irrespective of the above, the whole concern for me as a referee
is the safety aspect of players (whether kids or not) wearing normal prescription glasses for football, so it seems bizarre that in today's climate, especially with virtually everything we do in life being subject to some form of risk assessment or H & S box-ticking exercise, that the advice given above seems to say "Okay, it's an obvious safety risk for adults and kids, but where kids are concerned, let's be more lenient/tolerant!!". :wtf: That completely flies in the face of how we operate as a society in general these days.

It's time the FA either gave complete unambiguous direction (not guidance) on this subject even if it means having it written into Laws 4 and 5 respectively. Would you not agree?
 
Edgar Davids worse glasses when he played, and he was a pretty good professional. To suggest a referee who can't wear contact lenses can no longer referee is pretty ridiculous in my opinion.
 
My local youth league have it as a league rule that players can only wear sports glasses/goggles and they did have a scheme going with Specsavers for reduced prices.
For me, it's not just the lenses that could be a hazard but also the frames. The thin metal arms on normal specs could be tantamount to being stabbed in the face with a knitting needle.
 
That's already been quoted above Chas but also brings me back to the real crux of the matter which, before we even look at the overall safety aspect is this:

The guidance given above contains this sentence - Children and Grassroots Football: Whilst The FA recommends Polycarbonate lenses we recognise this may be an issue for children playing in grassroots football.

What does that even mean? Does it mean that even with Polycarbonate lenses there's still a safety issue for kids? Or does it mean that acquiring them instead of normal glasses might be an issue for them? Far too ambiguous (in my opinion anyway).

Irrespective of the above, the whole concern for me as a referee
is the safety aspect of players (whether kids or not) wearing normal prescription glasses for football, so it seems bizarre that in today's climate, especially with virtually everything we do in life being subject to some form of risk assessment or H & S box-ticking exercise, that the advice given above seems to say "Okay, it's an obvious safety risk for adults and kids, but where kids are concerned, let's be more lenient/tolerant!!". :wtf: That completely flies in the face of how we operate as a society in general these days.

It's time the FA either gave complete unambiguous direction (not guidance) on this subject even if it means having it written into Laws 4 and 5 respectively. Would you not agree?
I have thought about this, Kes, and my thoughts are:
As a comparison, when I took my referee exam (many years ago) the laws book had two full pages listing the requirements for players' footwear, e. g. length and breadth of studs, what if a stud is missing, etc. Now we have referee judgement as to what is acceptable.
As has been said here, referees have to judge re shinguards, jewellery, and such issues as plaster casts.
With spectacles, we have to bear in mind that the laws of the game are in force worldwide. In many countries, a "no spectacles" or "sports specs only" would prevent a lot of young people from playing as they cannot afford lenses or sports specs.
The option of competition rules would be my personal preference, with care to be taken to protect the referee from legal moves should a player have an issue affecting their sight after a game.
 
The option of competition rules would be my personal preference, with care to be taken to protect the referee from legal moves should a player have an issue affecting their sight after a game.

So, as it is now basically - a complete referee lottery ... :wall:
 
Not so - if competitions each have a clear rule in place, which may say "safety specs, no glass" as an example, refs should act accordingly.

What's the difference? It's either "safe" to play with normal specs on or it's not surely? The lottery stems from having a set of competition rules which are not extant FA-wide. It's fine to have different competitions/leagues/County FAs dishing out their own take on whether or not referees can wear coloured shirts or do the 7-5/6-4 promotion jump, but with an aspect of player safety there should be no possibility of misinterpretation or even devolvement.

I get the issue of people in "poorer" countries not being able to comply with any re-write of Law 4 were it to happen, but frankly, you could say the same where any mandatory equipment (such as shin guards, boots etc) is concerned if you attach the poverty label to it ..
 
I don’t think we should boot refs out and again have stated that it looks unprofessional to me. Can’t and won’t speak for anyone else.

Cant say I’d be okay with refs wearing sports glasses. If I’m using the laws to show we can wear a watch, id then also have to say theres a specific law that states players can wear sports or protective glasses. There is none for referees.
You are speaking for us though. I'm Type 1 diabetic and so can't wear contacts (the eye shape changes according to the levels of glucose in capillaries). I've worn glasses since I first qualified in 1998. The worst that's ever happened is the odd spectator having a good laugh at my expense with the great witticism about needing windscreen wipers.

I let the way I manage myself and my refereeing performance express my professionalism. Nobody else - outside the normal scope of complaining about the referee - has ever doubted that as far as I know. Definitely not because I need to wear glasses.
 
What's the difference? It's either "safe" to play with normal specs on or it's not surely? The lottery stems from having a set of competition rules which are not extant FA-wide. It's fine to have different competitions/leagues/County FAs dishing out their own take on whether or not referees can wear coloured shirts or do the 7-5/6-4 promotion jump, but with an aspect of player safety there should be no possibility of misinterpretation or even devolvement.

I get the issue of people in "poorer" countries not being able to comply with any re-write of Law 4 were it to happen, but frankly, you could say the same where any mandatory equipment (such as shin guards, boots etc) is concerned if you attach the poverty label to it ..
The benefit of competition rules is that The FA can inform re standard rules, so for England there would be a common approach - whatever that may end up as. Countries with widespread poverty can then address as they see fit.
 
The benefit of competition rules is that The FA can inform re standard rules, so for England there would be a common approach - whatever that may end up as. Countries with widespread poverty can then address as they see fit.
Okay, I can buy into that (sort of). Poverty stricken countries don't have anywhere near the raft of H&S regulations or mindset that we operate with here anyway.

Whatever the solution turns out to be, the integrity of the safety aspect to which the mention of not wearing "anything that is dangerous" is contained in Law 4 needs ratifying and upholding by clear direction from the FA as a whole where glasses/spectacles are concerned. I believe it needs to be blanket-issue and unambiguous. Using the words "encourage tolerance" is about as much help as a chocolate fireguard when it comes to safety and what is or isn't acceptable. :)

As a wise old sage well versed in such matters, I nominate you, our very own Chas to lobby the FA in a manner befitting and on behalf of us all at Refchat. :D:p
 
Okay, I can buy into that (sort of). Poverty stricken countries don't have anywhere near the raft of H&S regulations or mindset that we operate with here anyway.

Whatever the solution turns out to be, the integrity of the safety aspect to which the mention of not wearing "anything that is dangerous" is contained in Law 4 needs ratifying and upholding by clear direction from the FA as a whole where glasses/spectacles are concerned. I believe it needs to be blanket-issue and unambiguous. Using the words "encourage tolerance" is about as much help as a chocolate fireguard when it comes to safety and what is or isn't acceptable. :)

As a wise old sage well versed in such matters, I nominate you, our very own Chas to lobby the FA in a manner befitting and on behalf of us all at Refchat. :D:p
Next time Mr Elleray rings me I will tell him of your concerns😁
Incidentally, back in the day referees wearing glasses were not allowed to rise beyond Class 2 (now Level 6) in England . . . but that can of worms disappeared when discrimination legislation began to bite!
 
With spectacles, we have to bear in mind that the laws of the game are in force worldwide. In many countries, a "no spectacles" or "sports specs only" would prevent a lot of young people from playing as they cannot afford lenses or sports specs.

Is their sight somehow less valuable because they are poor?

Wearing normal glasses while playing football presents a significant risk to eyesight. I looked into this a great deal when my one-eyed son started playing. Play without your glasses - your vision won't be as good but you'll get to keep it.
 
Is their sight somehow less valuable because they are poor?

Wearing normal glasses while playing football presents a significant risk to eyesight. I looked into this a great deal when my one-eyed son started playing. Play without your glasses - your vision won't be as good but you'll get to keep it.
Of course their sight is equally valuable, but on a dirt pitch somewhere without as much care re H & S as we have, kids will clamour to play and whatever FIFA/IFAB say they will do so with/without spectacles.
 
Is their sight somehow less valuable because they are poor?

Wearing normal glasses while playing football presents a significant risk to eyesight. I looked into this a great deal when my one-eyed son started playing. Play without your glasses - your vision won't be as good but you'll get to keep it.
I don’t agree that regular glasses (as long as they don’t have glass lenses, which are basically impossible for a kid to have in the US) are a “significant” risk. As I noted before, they are pretty universally accepted in youth soccer games in the US, especially at the youngest ages. I’ve never heard of a serious injury from it. I’m sure they have happened, but that doesn’t mean it rises to the level of signicant—these same kids are also playing on their own on the school grounds or at the park while wearing their glasses. (I do think the risk increases with age--bodies/heads are moving much faster, as is the ball.)
 
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