The Ref Stop

Instructions to Match Officials for the 2023/24 Season

Viridis1886 said:
Similar message was shared via a massive Championship club today on Social Media and on the web.

https://www.pafc.co.uk/news/match-officials-adopt-new-approach-202324-season

This does seem to be a concerted approach.
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I've seen it's being suggested that goal celebrations (running to the corner to fans) will be penalised. (All 10 players or just the scorer?)

But if they're revising wording, at least make it clearer.

A ‘deliberate play’ is when a player has control of the ball and with the possibility of:
  • Passing the ball to a team-mate; or
  • Gaining possession of the ball; or
  • Clearing the ball (e.g., by kicking or heading it)
Anyone care to explain how you can have control of the ball but not have possession?


DOGSO:
  • A yellow card will be issued if the offence was an attempt to play the ball or a challenge for the ball.
  • A red card will be shown in all other circumstances (e.g., holding, pulling, pushing, no possibility to play the ball)
Does that mean a little bit of pushing and holding is OK, as in "a high threshold for penalising contact will remain, with officials not awarding a foul for all contact yet penalising when contact has a detrimental impact on an opponent"?
 
The Ref Stop
bloovee said:
DOGSO:
  • A yellow card will be issued if the offence was an attempt to play the ball or a challenge for the ball.
  • A red card will be shown in all other circumstances (e.g., holding, pulling, pushing, no possibility to play the ball)
Does that mean a little bit of pushing and holding is OK, as in "a high threshold for penalising contact will remain, with officials not awarding a foul for all contact yet penalising when contact has a detrimental impact on an opponent"?
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Based on some recent training material from Dan Meeson, it changes the previous upper body contact being deemed a red. If it's upper body contact in the process of jostling for position or challenging for a ball then this becomes a yellow.

If it's a clear shove or similar that isn't a proper challenge for the ball then red remains the correct action.
 
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cwyeary said:
Now will they give a 2yc for dissent during a massive match? Or does it default back to keep it 11v11.
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This is the ultimate question. What will happen in the Premier League or the Championship when a big-name player already on a caution should be cautioned again based on what is in these edicts? Will the referees issue the second caution, and will they be backed by the league and PGMOL? That's the big issue here. If this either doesn't ever happen or the first time it happens PGMOL apologizes, then this entire initiative goes up in smoke.

This happened a couple of years ago in MLS when the league made it a point of emphasis for officials to be very strict with cautions for delaying the restart of play. At the start of the year, PRO (our PGMOL) followed the point of emphasis and they were backed by the league. By the end of the season, it appeared that everything was just back to the way it was in previous seasons.

If, say, Bruno Fernandes (apologies to Man United fans, but he was the first player who came to mind that I could see run afoul of these new directives) should be issued a second caution for crowding the referee, will that referee give the second caution and will the league and PGMOL publicly come and out say, "Yes, we support the referee and Fernandes will sit out his next game"? That will be the true test.
 
Seeing that this instruction is filtering down from UEFA to all FAs gives me more hope that this is a real change in how refs handle dissent at the pro level.
 
cwyeary said:
Seeing that this instruction is filtering down from UEFA to all FAs gives me more hope that this is a real change in how refs handle dissent at the pro level.
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Problem is, most of the players in the UK look up to the Premier League and the Premier League seems to make up it's own laws these days !
 
The cautioning procedure is an interesting one. As a Referee Developer, delivering the introductory courses to new referees, we've not been informed of any change to the former "obsolete, outdated, unhelpful" (!!) approach. As such, we will (for now) be continuing to teach the old way. Especially at grassroots where match control is paramount and team sheets little used, I'd personally be in favour of the historic approach in all / the vast majority of cases. At Step 1 and above where Comms & 4th Officials feature and entertainment becomes paramount, I can see good arguments for the revised approach. And then Step 2-6 are somewhere in the middle ground :)
 
MJN said:
Can you share the link as have looked on the community website and cannot easily find them?
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Does anyone have the link to view the techincal videos on the FA Community website?

Or is it only available for L4's and above?
 
Sorry if I have missed this ..

Is there any grassroots referee information on if anything has or hasn’t changed at this level?

I haven’t seen anything which I’m taking to mean .. nothing has changed. I’m wondering how to manage a situation, for example, coaches and players asking an injured player to stay off for 30 seconds before returning .. time added on extra for stoppages so grassroots games going into 100 mins plus..
 
I still can't get to these clips - the FA community site recognises me as a referee, but I just see a pretty much empty site. Have raised a ticket, but could be me missing a trick ?

Anyway, very specific question. First step 4 game of the season this weekend, with an observer. Are we expected to implement the 30 second protocol on players leaving FOP for treatment ?
 
Quarryref said:
I still can't get to these clips - the FA community site recognises me as a referee, but I just see a pretty much empty site. Have raised a ticket, but could be me missing a trick ?

Anyway, very specific question. First step 4 game of the season this weekend, with an observer. Are we expected to implement the 30 second protocol on players leaving FOP for treatment ?
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No. Only EFL and Premier league I believe.
 
Quarryref said:
I still can't get to these clips - the FA community site recognises me as a referee, but I just see a pretty much empty site. Have raised a ticket, but could be me missing a trick ?

Anyway, very specific question. First step 4 game of the season this weekend, with an observer. Are we expected to implement the 30 second protocol on players leaving FOP for treatment ?
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No. I spoke to my coach who confirmed that this is PL/EFL competition rule.
 
Certainly early signs of what I feared. Once a player is on a yellow card, they're pretty safe from getting a second
That's where this could all fall apart. They want to clamp down, but have to keep it 11v11, the two are not mutually compatible

I also think some of the first cautions have been excessively pedantic on TV
I was on the line today and could feel the respect (or lack of) ooze further away as the young ref was overly keen should we say. Which is not what we want really... that's not what this is supposed to achieve . Early days anyway, we'll see how it all settles down in a few weeks, BUT IT WILL FAIL if C7 is off the cards, (or if the 1st caution is regularly stupidly officious, which Howard has stated he doesn't want)
 
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I agree, but on the line today it was really interesting to see players telling their team mates to not get involved with back chat to the ref, get a move on with goal kicks and keep away from oppo dead ball situations.

It's definitely getting into the zeitgeist.
 
Big Cat said:
Certainly early signs of what I feared. Once a player is on a yellow card, they're pretty safe from getting a second
That's where this could all fall apart. They want to clamp down, but have to keep it 11v11, the two are not mutually compatible

I also think some of the first cautions have been excessively pedantic on TV
I was on the line today and could feel the respect (or lack of) ooze further away as the young ref was overly keen should we say. Which is not what we want really... that's not what this is supposed to achieve . Early days anyway, we'll see how it all settles down in a few weeks, BUT IT WILL FAIL if C7 is off the cards, (or if the 1st caution is regularly stupidly officious, which Howard has stated he doesn't want)
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Not sure they are. Fred Onyedinma for Rotherham scored after 48 minutes, was cautioned for his celebration then sent off two minutes later for waving an imaginary yellow card. That definitely wouldn't have happened in previous seasons. Comically his manager is complaining about the first caution as his team mates pushed him into the crowd - well take it up with them then 🤦‍♂️
 
RustyRef said:
Not sure they are. Fred Onyedinma for Rotherham scored after 48 minutes, was cautioned for his celebration then sent off two minutes later for waving an imaginary yellow card. That definitely wouldn't have happened in previous seasons. Comically his manager is complaining about the first caution as his team mates pushed him into the crowd - well take it up with them then 🤦‍♂️
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Looks like it's been received well!
 
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