HertsFinest
Next Weeks Ref
Clear of national debt? We are still running an 80bn defecit! We are borrowing and borrowing and getting further into debt 
In or Out?
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Charlie Jones
Work Until You Don't Have To Introduce Yourself
the country will always be in debt ... countries don't tend to be profitable investments ... I mean the money that was borrowed in 2008
HertsFinest
Next Weeks Ref
Project threat. Very poor from Mr President.
Mooseybaby
Retired big bad baldy in all black!
The Yanks just love sticking their noses in just about everywhere. 
I seriously doubt that they would be willing to join forces in an EU style alliance with other continental Americas nations and tolerate being dictated to by faceless officials in Caracas!
Regardless of which way the UK vote goes, I strongly suspect the government will get the result they want one way or another, the EU appears to be a dead duck on the brink of collapse.
If the out vote wins the day, I fully expect it to be the catalyst for number of other members to hold referendums in the not to distant future.
I seriously doubt that they would be willing to join forces in an EU style alliance with other continental Americas nations and tolerate being dictated to by faceless officials in Caracas!Regardless of which way the UK vote goes, I strongly suspect the government will get the result they want one way or another, the EU appears to be a dead duck on the brink of collapse.
If the out vote wins the day, I fully expect it to be the catalyst for number of other members to hold referendums in the not to distant future.
Curious as to why Obama isn't entitled to give his opinion? The UK is one of the US' greatest allies and trade partners and the decision to exit the EU would likely have a profound effect on that relationship in terms of having to renegotiate. However, are you honestly telling me that they wouldn't renegotiate trade deals and the various other unilateral agreements? That will continue regardless of what decision is made in June.
I have a feeling that this vote may go the same way as the last election, influenced by the so called 'silent tory' effect; nobody expected the Conservatives to win by such a vast majority. Take this thread for example, the majority of those who have actually posted are in favour of leaving, yet there's a 15-8 majority for remaining in the vote. The more vocal side in terms of the public is those who want to leave. Those who are saying nothing? I'll bet they're with the remain campaign.
I also wanted to correct a common misconception about the EU. European Parliament does not make British laws, nor does Britain have to abide with any European law. Britain is a "dualist" nation, which means that any law made in Europe is not automatically enshrined into statute; an enabling law has to be drafted, debated and voted for in the Commons. What does this mean? It means that the UK does not have to adopt a European law and that as a result, Britain retains its sovereignty.
I have a feeling that this vote may go the same way as the last election, influenced by the so called 'silent tory' effect; nobody expected the Conservatives to win by such a vast majority. Take this thread for example, the majority of those who have actually posted are in favour of leaving, yet there's a 15-8 majority for remaining in the vote. The more vocal side in terms of the public is those who want to leave. Those who are saying nothing? I'll bet they're with the remain campaign.
I also wanted to correct a common misconception about the EU. European Parliament does not make British laws, nor does Britain have to abide with any European law. Britain is a "dualist" nation, which means that any law made in Europe is not automatically enshrined into statute; an enabling law has to be drafted, debated and voted for in the Commons. What does this mean? It means that the UK does not have to adopt a European law and that as a result, Britain retains its sovereignty.
SM
The avuncular one
The US has been in an abusive relationship with the UK for decades. The UK should be thinking about packing its bags and looking for a refuge.
I was still on the fence overall about this issue, but hearing self serving gits like Cameron and his conservative cronies and our US overlords campaign for us to stay in really forces me to believe getting out is the way forward.
I was still on the fence overall about this issue, but hearing self serving gits like Cameron and his conservative cronies and our US overlords campaign for us to stay in really forces me to believe getting out is the way forward.
Kes
I'll Decide ...
That's little more than a smokescreen though.
The fact is that Britain is always under pressure to adopt European Law and 99% of the time does. Britain's "sovereignty" as you call it was finally sold down the river when Gordon Brown put his flick on the Maastricht Treaty. EU laws infest this country's practice and protocol for just about everything - which it didn't when the "EU" was just a trade agreement. The "Common Purpose" rats have been gradually seeping this benign cultural Marxism into our way of life for years now and it doesn't take the brains of an Archbishop to see exactly where it's headed. Super-state control is all that really matters to these politicians and most of them (Cameron included - like Blair and Kinnock before him) want a seat at the fat cat trough. Nationalism and borders are the only real opposition to the Eurostate Dream now and Merkel has already begun to try to dilute that for her own nation and others by implementing a system of mass flooding of non-European immigrants into her country.
The Euro Dream's cracks are beginning to show. If it's so good for Britain, why is the notion of leaving even being discussed?
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Kes
I'll Decide ...
Actually Matthew, experience has shown that the silent majority are just that - silent. Too stupid or otherwise to grasp the concept that voting on something is virtually the only democratic (in theory anyway) right that remains for us.
It was apathy that won Tory the last election, and apathy that will make everybody (such as yourself) think that the majority wish to remain. You couldn't be more wrong.
And just in case anybody is wondering why this "referendum/issue" is taking place now:
It's because it's clear to many now, exactly what the progressive goal/outcome of this "Eurostatism" ultimately is. It's been underway for at least a couple of decades and may even take a decade or two more too achieve in totality, but make no mistake, it's a deliberate drive and direction to more statism, more control, and less political and personal freedom.
Be under no illusion that once this is achieved and Europe is "one" effectively, there is no way back - at least not without major social and political chaos/civil war. Some out there may not care and some of us will be dead/really old when this happens but our kids and grandkids stand to live this way and beyond.
That's the reason I'm out. There will always be time to negotiate your way back into things in the future but once we're completely subsumed into this socialist nightmare (which we will be unless we can extract ourselves now) we're stuck in it forever. The politicians don't care about us and neither do the citizens of other nations.
That's little more than a smokescreen though.
The fact is that Britain is always under pressure to adopt European Law and 99% of the time does. Britain's "sovereignty" as you call it was finally sold down the river when Gordon Brown put his flick on the Maastricht Treaty. EU laws infest this country's practice and protocol for just about everything - which it didn't when the "EU" was just a trade agreement. The "Common Purpose" rats have been gradually seeping this benign cultural Marxism into our way of life for years now and it doesn't take the brains of an Archbishop to see exactly where it's headed. Super-state control is all that really matters to these politicians and most of them (Cameron included - like Blair and Kinnock before him) want a seat at the fat cat trough. Nationalism and borders are the only real opposition to the Eurostate Dream now and Merkel has already begun to try to dilute that for her own nation and others by implementing a system of mass flooding of non-European immigrants into her country.
The Euro Dream's cracks are beginning to show. If it's so good for Britain, why is the notion of leaving even being discussed?
That's half the problem, our politicians bow to pressure from the EU when there's no real reason to. What happens when we have a euro-sceptic leader at the helm, which with Corbyn and Johnsonis almost inevitable? I'd almost guarantee that our pandering to the EU would stop. There has been no mass migration into this country, nor will there be any time soon. Will migrants come in? Absolutely, but not in the unprecedented numbers that are being suggested in some quarters. Things are far from perfect, but it's impossible to say whether thinks will be any better should be vote to leave.
I'm not sure there is a great deal of apathy, anybody you ask will care about this, more so than the general election. Perhaps this is a generational thing? Most older voters, those who remember the formation of the common market, have seen a great deal of change that the younger generation, like myself, haven't. For me, that explains why most older voters seem to want to leave. The EU as it is now is all I've ever known.
We're just not going to agree on this, I could pick holes in that viewpoint but it's not worth it because neither of us are going to change our minds!
Kes
I'll Decide ...
We're just not going to agree on this, I could pick holes in that viewpoint but it's not worth it because neither of us are going to change our minds!
True.
Perhaps it's just best to leave it to the more knowledgeable and experienced on this subject then.....
Trainee solicitor you say?
No offence mate, but that's what's wrong with our society today - far too many in that profession. Way too many.....
zarathustra
RefChat Addict
I'm still not 100% sure of how I'll vote on the day, but at the moment I'm leaning towards out.
YorkshireReferee
Well-Known Member
The only reason we are having an EU referendum is due to the rise of parties such as UKIP. UKIP became more popular and the Tory's moved to gain some of their votes by promising a referendum.
Charlie Jones
Work Until You Don't Have To Introduce Yourself
in ... out ... in ... out ... we shake it all about ... 
I think the people wanting in, or out should have to do their 'speech' as to why we should stay in, or out ... to that song
would definitely make politics more interesting for the non-follower
I think the people wanting in, or out should have to do their 'speech' as to why we should stay in, or out ... to that song
would definitely make politics more interesting for the non-follower
Kes
I'll Decide ...
As the day draws nearer, just thought I'd leave this little link here from our illustrious leader speaking in 2009. He seems to have completely changed his mind since becoming PM doesn't he? If anybody has any doubts about the government dishonesty involved in this campaign and the seriousness of it all........
If anybody has any doubts about the government dishonesty involved in this campaign and the seriousness of it all........
zarathustra
RefChat Addict
I'm still on the fence, but I think I'll be voting out.
That is as long as I register to vote as I moved house a couple of weeks ago.
One thing I've noticed is that the remain campaign don't seem to be selling the benefits of staying in the EU, but just seem to be concentrating on how the world will implode if we left.
That is as long as I register to vote as I moved house a couple of weeks ago.
One thing I've noticed is that the remain campaign don't seem to be selling the benefits of staying in the EU, but just seem to be concentrating on how the world will implode if we left.
HertsFinest
Next Weeks Ref
Not got long left to register if you haven't
The remain campaign are doing leave a favour.
Did you know if we leave your nan will be imprisoned, you'll lose your job, Nick Griffin will come and do his business in your kettle and within a week Godzilla will destroy London? Scary stuff
The remain campaign are doing leave a favour.
Did you know if we leave your nan will be imprisoned, you'll lose your job, Nick Griffin will come and do his business in your kettle and within a week Godzilla will destroy London? Scary stuff
RegalRef
Politically Incorrect
Not got long left to register if you haven't
The remain campaign are doing leave a favour.
Did you know if we leave your nan will be imprisoned, you'll lose your job, Nick Griffin will come and do his business in your kettle and within a week Godzilla will destroy London? Scary stuff
What's the downside?
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