In or Out?
- Thread starter HertsFinest
- Start date
- Status
@Tealeaf couldn't put it better myself so won't even try.... Apart from one point and that's the continuance of the U.K. In the event of a leave vote. The mood in the devolved regions is so different to that of England - would that be enough for Nicola Sturgeon? Would it be enough for a border poll here in the North? (Joking)
Charlie Jones
Work Until You Don't Have To Introduce Yourself
I'm in ... anyone thinking to leave would be mad. I keep seeing statuses on bookface (don't want any copyright infringement) of 'We need to put Great back into Great Britain) ... are they suggesting we start war on Germany, and ruthlessly take over small islands? lets remember as much as we were 'Great Britain' we was also hated ... by like, everyone. We did as the British still so commonly do on their holidays, and that's bully our way around - taking what isn't ours and claiming it as our own.
we gain nothing by leaving the EU really ... what do we have to export? and more importantly ... who would import to us?
also anyone thinking that leaving the EU would close our borders ... think again.
we gain nothing by leaving the EU really ... what do we have to export? and more importantly ... who would import to us?
also anyone thinking that leaving the EU would close our borders ... think again.
Remember we are a member of the G7. I can assure you that there is plenty that we can (and do) export, and (unfortunately) our balance of payments demonstrates that countries are more than willing to "import to us".
Kes
I'll Decide ...
The fear mongers spell out doom and gloom and that we'll all lose money. Short term we might. Long term we get to shape our own future without some unelected quasi-government making unilateral decisions which don't have our island's interests at heart. The IMF, the US and other huge corporations are desperate for the UK to stay in. Why? Hmm... could it be because the UK is a rich lap dog? Personally I'd like to be part of the "EU", in a trade sense but not the way it currently is. That isn't an option on the voting slip so its OUT for me. The Government want us to stay in because its the easy option and so that the self-servers can continue to feather their own nests.
Did you know that of the 500 or so motions our own MEPs have tabled, over 80% failed. Why on earth would you want to pay to be part of a club that doesn't share your interests?
Another simple and valid point, other than the democratic/sovereignty one was one I saw made by a 17 year old on Question Time. Her basic point was "Why are unskilled European people allowed to enter the UK freely, whilst highly skilled professionals (Doctors, engineers etc) from Australia, The US, India etc have to jump through hoops - surely a points based system would be better for everyone?" And she is right. 17 years old. Barely out of school and not a hint of racism. Just good plain sense.
Of course, the reality of the situation is that none of this voting rubbish actually means anything. Even if 70% of people vote to leave it's never going to happen. The government clearly have their own agenda (as do the EU commission) and simply won't do it. Don't fool yourself for one minute into thinking that we, the electorate actually have any say in this. That's the most horrific thing of all - we don't. True democracy was taken away from us some time ago, we were just too blind to see it. Just like the trade agreement Heath signed us up to decades ago has morphed into a socialist - based form of international government. There are already plans afoot to create the "EU Army". Scary scary stuff.
Kes
I'll Decide ...
EU democracy in action again?
RegalRef
Politically Incorrect
Having debated this myself internally for quite some time I've made my mind up and it's time to announce my position... I'M OUT
(not like that, sorry to disappoint
)
And the daft thing is, it's Liz Hurley who finally made my mind up. Not that she's a great political mind of course...
She made a point about how the EU has restricted certain everyday items - light bulbs, hair dryers, vacuum cleaners etc and it set me into thinking the many everyday bonkers things they rule on that we have to comply with whether we like it or not.
I have to have a decent business mind for the job I do, some of it involves making in depth long term decisions similar to this and I tend to ask myself the same questions:
How much better off would we be for a change?
What would the financial impact be positive or negative?
Financially what additional opportunities would we gain by making a change?
Is the reward worth the risk?
The bottom really carries the biggest weight, and this is the one I hadn't fully made my mind up on before recently.
Take the financials from the current situation (UK to EU subsidies vs rebates, which would at best cancel each other out) and make a decision based on that.
A lot is said about free trade deals etc but all other continents and large financial superpowers are as keen to maintain these deals as we are. Our import to export ratio is 37:63 in favour of imports, so no country that exports anything to the UK is going to want to risk that loss of business.
I don't see how a gathering of foreign countries can get together and make laws about anything on a 'same for each member state' basis: each member state has its own problems and agenda, and this simply doesn't work.
This vote isn't about money - the money we save in subsidies will cancel out the rebates we get if not more (and I highly suspect that is the case), it's about freedom - to choose, to run our own National Product whatever that may be, to decide what we do and don't want, and to make our own future.
And no 'deals' or compromises will ever achieve that. Neither will a committee of member states embroiled in their own issues with their own agendas.
It's time to put ourselves first and in charge of our own destiny.
(not like that, sorry to disappoint
)And the daft thing is, it's Liz Hurley who finally made my mind up. Not that she's a great political mind of course...
She made a point about how the EU has restricted certain everyday items - light bulbs, hair dryers, vacuum cleaners etc and it set me into thinking the many everyday bonkers things they rule on that we have to comply with whether we like it or not.
I have to have a decent business mind for the job I do, some of it involves making in depth long term decisions similar to this and I tend to ask myself the same questions:
How much better off would we be for a change?
What would the financial impact be positive or negative?
Financially what additional opportunities would we gain by making a change?
Is the reward worth the risk?
The bottom really carries the biggest weight, and this is the one I hadn't fully made my mind up on before recently.
Take the financials from the current situation (UK to EU subsidies vs rebates, which would at best cancel each other out) and make a decision based on that.
A lot is said about free trade deals etc but all other continents and large financial superpowers are as keen to maintain these deals as we are. Our import to export ratio is 37:63 in favour of imports, so no country that exports anything to the UK is going to want to risk that loss of business.
I don't see how a gathering of foreign countries can get together and make laws about anything on a 'same for each member state' basis: each member state has its own problems and agenda, and this simply doesn't work.
This vote isn't about money - the money we save in subsidies will cancel out the rebates we get if not more (and I highly suspect that is the case), it's about freedom - to choose, to run our own National Product whatever that may be, to decide what we do and don't want, and to make our own future.
And no 'deals' or compromises will ever achieve that. Neither will a committee of member states embroiled in their own issues with their own agendas.
It's time to put ourselves first and in charge of our own destiny.
Last edited:
YorkshireReferee
Well-Known Member
Each side claims the other is scaremongering, but in reality both sides are scaremongering.
Kes
I'll Decide ...
Possibly.
The main difference however is that the scaremongerers who want us to remain are using the "what if" scenario a lot. Those campaigning to leave are simply pointing out the existing negatives, which are fairly significant.
Like I said, it all makes no difference. Cameron and Co have already decided which way Britain will "vote".......
YorkshireReferee
Well-Known Member
Kes
I'll Decide ...
Not really.
It's fairly obvious anyway that the reason the Brexit issue has come about is due to the extreme dissatisfaction of many with the present state of affairs. Only the really gullible imagine it won't get any worse.......
RegalRef
Politically Incorrect
I do think there's an element of scaremongering from both sides:
The in camp are effectively basing their whole campaign along the lines of fear of the unknown, the Brexit camp are focusing on the extremes of immigration and the financial cost of our membership, or more accurately how both those things could spiral in the next decade or so.
My fear would be that the public are not educated enough on both sides to make an informed decision so vote for the 'safe' option to maintain the status quo.
I just hope there's a decent turnout, and both sides make a more concerted effort to clarify their positions between now and then. If that's the case I'll accept whatever the result is without question, regardless of if it goes with our against my vote.
The in camp are effectively basing their whole campaign along the lines of fear of the unknown, the Brexit camp are focusing on the extremes of immigration and the financial cost of our membership, or more accurately how both those things could spiral in the next decade or so.
My fear would be that the public are not educated enough on both sides to make an informed decision so vote for the 'safe' option to maintain the status quo.
I just hope there's a decent turnout, and both sides make a more concerted effort to clarify their positions between now and then. If that's the case I'll accept whatever the result is without question, regardless of if it goes with our against my vote.
HertsFinest
Next Weeks Ref
On a lighter note, Call me Daves leaflet came through just as id run out of bog roll so that was a bonus
RegalRef
Politically Incorrect
On a lighter note, Call me Daves leaflet came through just as id run out of bog roll so that was a bonus
Knowing what he's like it'd paper cut your arse.
HertsFinest
Next Weeks Ref
Everybody that's voting in, I've asked the question:
'If the UK was not a member of the EU and the referendum question read -should Britain join the European Union- what would your answer be?
I've turned a few with that question! As there is no logical answer to that but to not join
'If the UK was not a member of the EU and the referendum question read -should Britain join the European Union- what would your answer be?
I've turned a few with that question! As there is no logical answer to that but to not join
The fear mongers spell out doom and gloom and that we'll all lose money. Short term we might. Long term we get to shape our own future without some unelected quasi-government making unilateral decisions which don't have our island's interests at heart. The IMF, the US and other huge corporations are desperate for the UK to stay in. Why? Hmm... could it be because the UK is a rich lap dog? Personally I'd like to be part of the "EU", in a trade sense but not the way it currently is. That isn't an option on the voting slip so its OUT for me. The Government want us to stay in because its the easy option and so that the self-servers can continue to feather their own nests.
Did you know that of the 500 or so motions our own MEPs have tabled, over 80% failed. Why on earth would you want to pay to be part of a club that doesn't share your interests?
Another simple and valid point, other than the democratic/sovereignty one was one I saw made by a 17 year old on Question Time. Her basic point was "Why are unskilled European people allowed to enter the UK freely, whilst highly skilled professionals (Doctors, engineers etc) from Australia, The US, India etc have to jump through hoops - surely a points based system would be better for everyone?" And she is right. 17 years old. Barely out of school and not a hint of racism. Just good plain sense.
Of course, the reality of the situation is that none of this voting rubbish actually means anything. Even if 70% of people vote to leave it's never going to happen. The government clearly have their own agenda (as do the EU commission) and simply won't do it. Don't fool yourself for one minute into thinking that we, the electorate actually have any say in this. That's the most horrific thing of all - we don't. True democracy was taken away from us some time ago, we were just too blind to see it. Just like the trade agreement Heath signed us up to decades ago has morphed into a socialist - based form of international government. There are already plans afoot to create the "EU Army". Scary scary stuff.
It's worth pointing out that the voting records of the UK Independence Party MEPs really skews the UK's MEP voting records... http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2015/dec/17/how-often-do-uk-meps-get-their-way
Another simple and valid point, other than the democratic/sovereignty one was one I saw made by a 17 year old on Question Time. Her basic point was "Why are unskilled European people allowed to enter the UK freely, whilst highly skilled professionals (Doctors, engineers etc) from Australia, The US, India etc have to jump through hoops - surely a points based system would be better for everyone?" And she is right. 17 years old. Barely out of school and not a hint of racism. Just good plain sense.
That's more of an argument for completely open movement of labour rather than the other way round.
Kes have a quick read through here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine–European_Union_Association_Agreement to see just how democracy made that happen, look at all the deegates from all the countries who overwhelmingly supported the agreement.
In the dutch referendum 19% of the electorate voted against the agreement, 68% didn't even bother to vote.
You might need to find a more reliable source than the Express
Charlie Jones
Work Until You Don't Have To Introduce Yourself
lets get everything right though ...
the whole 'vote' is a fix ... we wont be voted 'out' ... it will be a 'in' vote ... the only system as been rigged to forge a massive flux in economy, to help push us out of the last bit of recession. you all wait and see ... this will be the biggest plan hatched by a political party, proving that Mr Osborne is more intelligent then anyone gives him credit for and that Mr Cameron can follow through on his promise that by 2018 we will be clear of the national debt ...
hurrahhh Britain!
ps. anyone tell I voted conservative?
the whole 'vote' is a fix ... we wont be voted 'out' ... it will be a 'in' vote ... the only system as been rigged to forge a massive flux in economy, to help push us out of the last bit of recession. you all wait and see ... this will be the biggest plan hatched by a political party, proving that Mr Osborne is more intelligent then anyone gives him credit for and that Mr Cameron can follow through on his promise that by 2018 we will be clear of the national debt ...
hurrahhh Britain!
ps. anyone tell I voted conservative?
- Status